Otter Hole Caves of South Wales Description...
- Thread starter Hatstand
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C
Clive G
Guest
From trips that I did in there during the early 1980s I would say that more likely in the upper series it has at some point been, and very possibly still is, the best-decorated cave in Northern Europe. Others should be more informed as to the current situation.
Here's an extract from an interview that I did with Bill Gascoine: "I remember, I say I remember particularly that trip into Otter Hole: Jim Hay took me in Otter Hole when it was first discovered. It had only been discovered a few weeks . . . and I had a headache and it wasn't from the strenuousness of the trip. It was from constantly looking where to put your feet and where to stand up and where to duck down and where to be able to lean against a wall and not lean against a wall. It was one hell of a trip! . . . And I had a horrible feeling when I came out from there that I'd done irreparable damage through sheer ignorance . . . And I didn't like it at all and in fact the, the three people that were with me were all . . . we all sat in the pub afterwards and had the same view that 'God, that was hard work!' And it was hard work because of the sheer beauty of the place and having that feeling you really shouldn't be there." (Bill Gascoine, 1988)
Here's an extract from an interview that I did with Bill Gascoine: "I remember, I say I remember particularly that trip into Otter Hole: Jim Hay took me in Otter Hole when it was first discovered. It had only been discovered a few weeks . . . and I had a headache and it wasn't from the strenuousness of the trip. It was from constantly looking where to put your feet and where to stand up and where to duck down and where to be able to lean against a wall and not lean against a wall. It was one hell of a trip! . . . And I had a horrible feeling when I came out from there that I'd done irreparable damage through sheer ignorance . . . And I didn't like it at all and in fact the, the three people that were with me were all . . . we all sat in the pub afterwards and had the same view that 'God, that was hard work!' And it was hard work because of the sheer beauty of the place and having that feeling you really shouldn't be there." (Bill Gascoine, 1988)
mrodoc
Well-known member
I was lucky to go in in 1976. Visits in the 80's suggest to me it was trashed compared to what it looked like originally. see http://www.darkanddeep.co.uk/caving_other.asp as quite a few shots were taken in 76. I am sure it still looks beautiful but there is quite a bit of detail that's gone. I agree though - one of the most spectacularly beautiful caves in the UK. Caves of Fairy Cave quarry come second for concentrated prettiness - also visible on dark and deep!
whitelackington
New member
Have you bottomed Upper Flood Swallet yet mrodoc,mrodoc said:
that's spectacular I am told, my chest is too big so my information is second hand,
hence us digging towards the new stuff, vis Stainsby's Shaft.
caving_fox
Active member
Certainly right up there as one of the best. It kind of depends on what you like. Otter probably wins on the impressive stals and Straws front, but in terms of wonderful passage or bizare formations I'm not sure it is quite so good. It is definetly strenuous caving.
Craig a fynnon was much more straightforward caving and has similar straws and formations. DYO is perhaps between the two in terms of difficulty and impressiveness.
I feel very lucky that I've managed to do all three within the last 15 mo.
Craig a fynnon was much more straightforward caving and has similar straws and formations. DYO is perhaps between the two in terms of difficulty and impressiveness.
I feel very lucky that I've managed to do all three within the last 15 mo.
footleg
New member
mrodoc said:
I wouldn't say it was that trashed. I went in earlier this year, and I felt it was the best decorated cave I have seen in Europe. Of course there are many caves I have not been in, and some I have with more impressive formations in parts. But for sheer numbers of incredible sights Otter would take some beating. We only got as far as the Hall of thirty too, as we were on a photo trip. I'm looking forward to the opportunity to photograph beyond there another time. Looking at mrodoc's photo's I would not say I noticed the cave was more trashed than I could tell compared to the pictures. With the exception of the Jaws which I think are very muddied since the photo on darkanddeep.co.uk was taken. But in general the cave is very well preserved, with damage confined to the taped route through the galleries.
Ship-badger
Member
Hatstand said:
In my humble opinion, as I have put forward before on this forum; NO. I think the claim to most "beautiful" must go to "Trafalgar Passage" and "Corkscrew Chamber" in Agen Allwedd. I think the formations in Otter Hole, where I have been many times, are stunning, majestic, bold and very impressive; but for sheer beauty I have seen nothing to rival the "Courtesan".
As I said, my humble opinion.
footleg
New member
Hatstand said:
People talk an awful lot of bollocks in the caving world! I've heard people say that Matienzo is all caved out and there is nothing left worth finding out there. But in 2008 a total of just over 13km of new cave was discovered, plus another 15km in 2009. Don't believe all that you hear. Go an take a look and see what you think.
caving_fox
Active member
"seen better" is down to personal opinion. As is "not worth it" I'd certainly say the entrance is a lot more strenuous than some other caves which have almost as pretty stal. Only in terms of kcal expended per 'wow' of stal would I probably agree that it's not worth it. It is very pretty. So are some other caves. Until you've been for yourself you won't know whether you want to go back or not.
Ship-badger
Member
Hatstand said:Interesting
Quite a few people have said to me in the past things like "its not worth it" and "I've seen better" etc etc... ...so is this just a case of being unable to live up to the hype?
I have never taken anyone in there who said afterwards that it wasn't worth it; at least they didn't say it to me! As I have already said, there are prettier formations; but for sheer grandeur and quantity Otter is up there with the best. Otter Hole would be a classic trip if there were no formations at all; I suspect that some of the people who say it's not worth it, may be members of that small band who are so unfit that they don't make it past the Hall of Thirty, thereby missing many of the spectacular formations.
Rhys
Moderator
There's nothing like the stal bosses of the Hall of Thirty anywhere else in this country as far as I'm aware. You normally have to go to France or somewhere for stuff on that scale. There's plenty more good stuff beyond too. Well worth it in my view.
I would say that I prefer Dan-yr-ogof as an all round fun sporty and spectacularly pretty trip though; and I speak as a leader for both caves.
Rhys
I would say that I prefer Dan-yr-ogof as an all round fun sporty and spectacularly pretty trip though; and I speak as a leader for both caves.
Rhys
D
Dear Noel Axle
Guest
Very definately worth a visit IMO, and not as difficult as some people make out.
Regarding being the best decorated in the UK, I'd say that the formations definately go on for much longer than other trips I've done, but in the most part lack the delicate and bizarre nature that can be found in other Welsh caves.
Here are some photos I took this year, all past the HOTT, Rhys was our leader
Comparing the last photo with the same view in The Complete Caving Manual (Sparrow), a few metre long straws can be seen to be missing in the centre of the frame below an overhang - everything else appears the same...
Alexander
Regarding being the best decorated in the UK, I'd say that the formations definately go on for much longer than other trips I've done, but in the most part lack the delicate and bizarre nature that can be found in other Welsh caves.
Here are some photos I took this year, all past the HOTT, Rhys was our leader
Comparing the last photo with the same view in The Complete Caving Manual (Sparrow), a few metre long straws can be seen to be missing in the centre of the frame below an overhang - everything else appears the same...
Alexander
mrodoc
Well-known member
If you haven't been in Otter Hole you need to visit it. Despite my initial comments I did say it is a remarkably spectacular cave and unique in Britain. The trashed bits are floor detail and the Jaws. Sadly one really amazing formation got broken before I photographed it. I found it after being told where to look and I really cannot understand why it was broken. A straw had fallen at the side of the passage and laid supported at both ends by stalamites. From it had grown a curtain. The whole thing resembled a saw in calcite. Its in bits now
C
Clive G
Guest
There was a cluster of very fine white selenite needles, several inches long each, standing up from the clay on a boulder in the Time Machine in Daren Cilau. Dave Mills (who found them) and I put some Marathon (Snickers) Bar wrappers around them to help protect them.
A week later we replaced the chocolate-bar wrappers with a small complete circle of red-and-white marker tape.
A few months later, in the centre of the marker tape, was a bootprint . . .
Who was it who said there is no point in conserving caves and slowing down the rate of attrition? Clearly, someone who goes around underground with their eyes half shut.
A week later we replaced the chocolate-bar wrappers with a small complete circle of red-and-white marker tape.
A few months later, in the centre of the marker tape, was a bootprint . . .
Who was it who said there is no point in conserving caves and slowing down the rate of attrition? Clearly, someone who goes around underground with their eyes half shut.
