Plugs and feathers query

Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Here's the ones I ordered Wednesday evening - delivered Friday lunchtime (standard delivery).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/QWORK-Industrial-Feather-Concrete-Splitter/dp/B0769DVT1B

They look well made and the price isn't bad compared with some. Held together with a big fat O ring, which should reduce the likelihood of parts scuttling off into inaccessible hollows, irretrievably. Hopefully they'll get used in anger within a week, so I'll post an honest evaluation after that.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
By chance I got chatting to a bloke who is a stone mason when I was at work. He told me there is a forge which will make plugs and feathers to individual requirements. Apparently they're not too pricey either.

Thought it might be worth sharing the information in this topic:

RH &G TRAVIS Brighouse West Yorkshire.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
I promised to give a bit of feedback, so . . .

Used the new 14 mm plugs & feathers (see link in my post of 10th July above) in anger this morning. The main reason I bought them was I'd got a capping rod stuck a few weeks ago in a large boulder and I'd tried all sorts to recover it since then (short of noisy methods). Using 5 holes about 125 mm deep, the plugs & feathers split the boulder clean in half. The capping rod fell into my hand as I gently prised the two halves apart with a horse's head bar.

I am very impressed with this purchase and would definitely recommend them. At less that ?22 (inc delivery) each plug & feather set costs  well under ?4. (replacements can be bought in pairs, incidentally.)

In case it's of use to know, the reason for the failure of the capping effort became immediately apparent as soon as the boulder was split. The cap had jammed 30 mm from the bottom of the hole. I'd not been able to hit the capping rod quite hard enough to encourage the cap to go to the very bottom (due to the very awkward situation) so it hadn't fired. Will put this one down to experience but all's well that ends well. And I've now got new toys to play with in future.  ;)
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
mikem said:
Heavy duty version on tomorrow's world:
https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=251542126728193&_rdr
Click to expand...

Ah, good old Raymond Baxter. What excellent diction he had; many modern presenters could learn a lot from him. It's somehow refreshing to hear him talking in yards and inches too!

I'd love one of those toys . . . .    :D
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Spacing wasn't perfectly even but on average about 100 mm apart.

With plugs & feathers it's advisable for the holes to be in a line, to be considerably deeper than the length of the plugs & feathers - and to be as near as possible perpendicular to the rock surface. That's in an ideal world but sometimes, in a boulder with an irregular surface, it's not always easy. Done properly, it's quite amazing how powerful these things are.

The stonemason I had the good fortune to bump into t'other day was describing their use to split off rectangular blocks as long as 30 m, very precisely. There are videos of professional use of plugs and feathers, on a scale larger than we potholers would ever be involved with, on You Tube.
 
I

IanWalker

Active member
Re splitting large rocks in quarry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyKbZ7UMOys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJSrMwGKbZI
 
F

Fishes

New member
I've used plug and feathers quite a lot when digging and find them much easier to use if you lubricate the plug. This also seems to reduce damage on the plug and the feathers with repeated use.

Mine are 14mm. I find them more effective than the smaller ones Jopo used to make (sorry Jopo) and 14mm isn't really a problem with modern drills.

I did find smaller ones available in the US but it can be a real pain getting stuff from the US with some suppliers.

It can be quite easy to lose parts of the plug and feathers in some circumstances but some of the Chinese imports come with a "rubber" moulding to help keep them together. John Beck used to use this type and we also now have some in the Derbyshire CRO kit but I haven't used them personally.

 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
This is a bit more like the sort of job us potholers might want to do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epFXm5C1lc8
 
NewStuff

NewStuff

New member
Fishes said:
I've used plug and feathers quite a lot when digging and find them much easier to use if you lubricate the plug. This also seems to reduce damage on the plug and the feathers with repeated use.
Click to expand...

Unless I was taught incorrectly, then lubing the plug (Quiet at the back!) is normal and recommended. Lithium, Moly, Shell Gadus (work perk)... I've used all sorts, it just needs to be something to reduce the friction. I found Lithium attracted a lot more grit though, and needed more cleaning so as not to have an abrasive action.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Just another update; I've used the 14 mm plugs and feathers I bought quite a lot now. Couple of weeks ago I had a boulder to deal with which was 5 ft x 2 ft 6 ins x 18 ins. (So, in new money, about 1.5 m x 0.75 m x 0.45 m.) I easily split this in half using just 5 x 14 mm holes and the plugs and feathers. Then the two halves were further split in a similar fashion, for removal. Needless to say, I was suitably impressed. (Thanks for the tip in the two posts above about lubrication, by the way.)

But . . . I'm back to needing 2 or 3 sets of plugs and feathers which go in a 12 mm or half inch hole. This is for a job underwater where the most practical way to put the holes in is with an old fashioned star drill. I only have half inch star drills in the armoury, hence the need for a smaller set of plugs and feathers.

There were some useful suggestions made in this topic on where this size could be obtained but these were either overseas (hasle) or prohibitively expensive.

I was wondering if anyone on here is into forge work, who might be willing to knock some out, for a consideration? I found a video which shows how to do this but I don't have the skills or workshop myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC0EjOjp3PI The relevant part is between roughly 10:49 and 19:00 minutes. It also nicely shows why the holes should be drilled deeper than the length of the feathers.

Anyone interested?
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Thanks - noted. Huddersfield, eh? That's got possibilities.

Is Owen a caver, out of interest? (He looks like one on his website!)
 
AR

AR

Well-known member
I have the necessary skills and the kit (was briefly a working smith in Malhamdale twenty years ago) but very rarely enough time to dig it all out from the garage, set the hearth up and hit some hot metal  :( That's why I suggested trying the Malham smithy, though if the Clementses are still going at Settle there's another possibility for getting some made. They're not difficult to make if you know how to do forgework, particularly if you have a half-inch bottom swage to get the feathers to the right size.
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Yep; I swung by D & R Clements on Castlebergh Lane (Settle) last week but they were shut. Got their phone number; might give 'em a ring to see what's what.

Surely though it must be possible to buy half inch plugs & feathers off the shelf somewhere in thjios country?
 
E

Ed

Active member
Pitlamp said:
Thanks - noted. Huddersfield, eh? That's got possibilities.

Is Owen a caver, out of interest? (He looks like one on his website!)
Click to expand...

Climber etc... Though may have caved.

Member of one if the Pennine MRTs
 
Cantclimbtom

Cantclimbtom

Well-known member
Apologies this is borderline off topic but I know the frequenters of this thread will have the knowledge. If you wanted to manually drill some 8mm holes in a stronger concrete.

How would something like a rocpec "handle" and good quality 4 cutting tip drill bit compare to a traditional flute drill (if a sharp one could be sourced at 8mm). Obviously speed is an important consideration but lower noise is also a factor here.

I don't wish to discuss exactly what/why/where (I'm not doing a bank job or anything very naughty so don't freak out)
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
If you have access to the right sized star drill I'd use that. It's what it's designed for.

You could try both options on the same test piece of limestone beforehand to see which is better? By "flute drill" I presume you mean a standard carbide tipped masonry drill bit? They do work but you may experience brittle failure. I think the secret is lots of gentle tapping with a small hammer whilst rotating it cosnstantly, not bashing it hard with a 4 lb lump hammer.

Star drills that size are not easy to find in the UK - perhaps the best source is car boot sales where someone's flogging a load of old tools, perhaps fom a house clearance. They are available new from America however, though taxes / import hassles etc may make ordering require some determination.
 
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