Radon in Giants

[Fulk]

Thank you Groundhog . . . I stand corrected!

 

[T pot 2]

:stunning photo of AG in the middle

 

[Wardy]

And that T-Pot sort of reinforces the how long ago it was!

Agree it is a good shot of him indulging in a typical activity

 

[Dickie]

I recall Tim Lewis coming through the first (short) sump in KMC with a lit fag end on his tongue in his mouth. Got a couple of puffs out of it before it got dripped on.

 

[mrodoc]

What have some cavers got in common with former inhabitants of Dartmoor Prison? Answer: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/radon-gas-prison-dartmoor-hmp-exeter-b2924224.html. It would seem there is no hope for us - or anybody living in parts of Cornwall.

 

[braveduck]

I'm told that the Matlock area is particularly low in radon, despite the abundance of lava in that area - it's possible the lower lavas trap any rising radon and force it eastwards under the shale, but I'm no expert. But you can do regular visits in that area with few issues. I think the shale boundary is ironically part of the problem in Castleton - that and uranium. I'm sure I read somewhere once that boreholes had been drilled around the Mam Tor/Odin Rake area testing for it, but I've never managed to find it again. Not the kind of thing I'd dream up, but no joy. But I gather that Odin Rake is a particularly deep fault and may go all the way to the base of the limestone, which is quite a long way. Windy Knoll also has elaterite (bitumen) deposits in the rock, and it is sticky, just like tar. So that must be coming upwards from somewhere. Giants, particularly the deeper sections, isn't that far away really.

The Edale shale contains Uranium Phosphate nodules (almost in commercial quantities ) ,that's where all the Radon in Castleton Caves is coming from .

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Trying to remember which way round it is ..
Radon levels there are generally higher in Winter than in summer (is that correct?)

And don't mention the "U" word or the Americans might come to liberate it.

 

[wellyjen]

Trying to remember which way round it is ..
Radon levels there are generally higher in Winter than in summer (is that correct?)

The other way round. Lower in winter. Higher in summer, at least for Giant's Hole, where there has been longer term monitoring to pick up such distinctions. So much so that some people won't go there in the summer months.

 

[LJR]

From memory, August is the worst month.

 

[pwhole]

The Edale shale contains Uranium Phosphate nodules (almost in commercial quantities ) ,that's where all the Radon in Castleton Caves is coming from .

I do remember reading somewhere once, possibly a Trevor Ford paper, that there had been some test drilling done around the flanks of Mam Tor in the 1950s, specifically testing for the commercial viability of extraction - presumably it just fell short. Or they were more worried about Mam Tor falling on top of them

 

[T pot 2]

I do remember reading somewhere once, possibly a Trevor Ford paper, that there had been some test drilling done around the flanks of Mam Tor in the 1950s, specifically testing for the commercial viability of extraction - presumably it just fell short. Or they were more worried about Mam Tor falling on top of them

Phil
You can still visit the borehole plug, it gives the eastings and northings a date of drilling on the plug lid, also included is how many barrels it produced, from memory it was about 10 barrels a week.

 

[braveduck]

Phil
You can still visit the borehole plug, it gives the eastings and northings a date of drilling on the plug lid, also included is how many barrels it produced, from memory it was about 10 barrels a week.

Barrels of what ?

 

[T pot 2]

Barrels of what ?

Barrels of what ?

Shale oil, there was some drilling in the 80's too.

 

[T pot 2]

Shale oil, there was some drilling in the 80's too.

As an aside it's reveranced in the early edition of 'lead mining in the peak district' that t'owd man of oden mine used the oil to waterproof their leather clogs with it, that is until it rotted the leather.

 

[pwhole]

One side-effect of that may be the remarkable condition of some of the timber stemples in Odin - I can't vouch for them all, obviously, but we've climbed on some and rigged deviations from some with no issues - both examples below were solid. I did wonder whether the local presence of oil or bitumen had something to do with the preservation.

 

[mikem]

Note - it's not advisable to apply oil to your ropes...

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Note - it's not advisable to apply oil to your ropes...

I've heard stories of people inspecting insides of oil tanker tanks having to down jumar to descend, because of the oil on the ropes

Anyhow... back to the Radon producing shale layer. Does it have any nasty shaley habbits like CO2, CH4, H2S, or other "fun" oily-shale air issues?

 

[pwhole]

It would be interesting to test the levels further east, say near Calver/Hassop Common, as there's an equally prominent shale margin there, with many mine workings actually cutting through it.

 

[Mark Wright]

I've heard stories of people inspecting insides of oil tanker tanks having to down jumar to descend, because of the oil on the ropes

I was the supervisor on the first ever inspection of a 365,000T supertanker using rope access techniques in 1994. We did the inspection while it was in transit between Singapore and Dubai. We were just inspecting the water ballast tanks on this first trip but went on to carry out a number of full enhanced surveys of all tanks on quite a few ships over the following few years. I think they are all done like this nowadays.

I don't know where the stories of oil covered ropes came from, but from my experience, the insides of the tanks were almost clean enough to eat your dinner from. Once the tanks were emptied they were cleaned out by lowering a series of 'Butterworth' cleaning tools through the round 'Butterworth' holes in the deck. This squirted very high pressure water and other more nasty things through a tool that spun round in all directions.

The only gloopy oil I remember in them was at the very backs of the tanks.

 

[wellyjen]

Anyhow... back to the Radon producing shale layer. Does it have any nasty shaley habbits like CO2, CH4, H2S, or other "fun" oily-shale air issues?

I suspect the localised high CO2 levels found in many Peak District caves and mines have something to do with shale layers. Never noticed H2S by smell and yes I know about high levels disabling sense of smell. Wouldn't be able to detect CH4 without the appropriate meter. C02 infered through breathing much harder than the exercise warranted and by simultaneous reduced O2 percentage on Oxygen meters we sometimes carried.