Replacing helmets

[kay]

I've seen advice that helmets should be routinely replaced after 5 years use.

Is this manufacturer's enthusiasm or is this valid? Yes, I know my hemet is a vital bit of safety equipment, but given that I do no SRT, go down a ladder about once a year, and am rarely in a position to have rocks dropped on me, can I push the life of my helmet a bit longer - say to 15 years?

 

[Brains]

Personal preference I would say - just taken my old one out of frequent use as the cradle had worn thru and stuff was living on the webbing, still 20+ years of climbing and caving wasnt too bad for it!
For the use described by you a miners type site helmet (Chin strap and lamp bracket) sounds ideal, and I see no reason why it shouldnt go on for years You know what you do, and what the hazards are, the nanny state cant really stop you just wearing a beret if it so pleases you!
Probably an old bowler with lump of clay and a candle would be seen as a little "old hat" these days, even amongst the mine explorers.

 

[paul]

Although starting as a thread about drilling holes, etc. in helmets and the effect on safety, this thread on a US caving forum has some information you may find useful:

http://www.caves.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=810

 

[Stu]

The materials degrade over time. They also wear out quicker when used heavily. The advise given by the manufacturers is there to give the wearer some guage as to when the user should consider retiring equipment. The only way to know is to test it to the original specification. Plastic helmets are a little easier to check visually as they tend to scuff. If you bend and twist it and no cracks appear, that's a good thing. Poly-carbon type helmets being a bit more brittle are harder to check this way but if they have split they're usually pretty obvious.

Cynics aside, a £30+ helmet retired after five years is £6+ a year... not a bad return really.


My personal helmet is about six years old and will probably stay in service for a couple more years... it's very comfy. My work/s helmet gets replaced every five years with a once yearly inspection.

I know this doesn't answer your question with a yes or no.

 

[MSD]

I'm (relatively recently) on my third helmet after well over 20 years caving. I don't have any particular information on helmet construction and material to go on, but 5 years seems a bit short to me, assuming the the helmet passes visual inspection. One thing I wonder over is whether it's the shell of the helmet that is the deal, or the straps and cradle? Maybe the recommendation is following a general recommendation that all ropes and tapes should be retired at that kind of age? Funnily enough it was the state of the straps/cradle which prompted me to replace mine, just like Brains'.

Serious head injuries when caving are actually pretty rare. (I don't count falling a very large number of metres as a head injury - you are likely to die whatever way up you land and quality of helmet is pretty irrelevant !) That's no reason for complacency, but I don't think a reasonably modern helmet is going to let you down badly after 10 or more years, provided you have looked after it and not worn it to bits.

MArk

 

[AndyF]

I suspect that this may be some EU buraucracy gone wild...or suppliers drumming up trade!

Since no-one seems willing to make a value judgement about ropes, helmets etc, then having a fixed replacement time covers people.

Ropes are different, and climbing helmets that may take a large impact I can understand, but caving helmet use is different. Personnaly I would not replace a helmet until it was broken or other obvious defect..

I like to take responsibilty for my own kit and choose any risks I take with it's condition....now where are those cheap Russian crabs I picked up a little while ago...... :shock:

 

[tubby two]

Must also depend a lot on your helmet and how you cave, a solid caving supplies box is going to last longer than petzls 'one hit wonder' elios things! Also goes on how you cave, i know i walk along passages banging my head along the roof and hence my helmet looks pretty battered after 4 years, then i know others who have done similar amounts of caving but their helmets still look almost new (the person in question though, does clean it after every trip i reckon!).
I'd have said you're more likely to get a big rock on your head underground than you are climbing (mountaineering and winter excluded there) as you see more loose rubble at pitch heads than you do atop crags.

tt.

 

[AndyF]

I'm often surprised walking around the crags at the number of peeps doing 'ard routes where falling off seems to be the norm who aren't wearing lids.

Falling off does seem to involve getting tangled on ropes and ending up upside down with fair frequency, I'm amazed there aren't more serious injuries on this score.

Idon't want to sound like an old f**t but personally i always wear a lid climbing these days, trendy or not.

I agree with the comments on Petzl lids, anything too hard is asking for trouble. I like the lids CS used to do(still do?), shell made of poly-something by Edelrid I think, with CS own webbing inside and a bracket on the front. They have the right amount of flex required...

 

[Ship-badger]

I agree with the comments on Petzl lids, anything too hard is asking for trouble. I like the lids CS used to do(still do?), shell made of poly-something by Edelrid I think, with CS own webbing inside and a bracket on the front. They have the right amount of flex required...

I was present when a young lad slipped outside a cave in South Wales, slid down a bank and over a short cliff, and landed on some rocks. He was wearing a CS helmet. The helmet didn't have a mark on it but the lad died of his very severe head injuries. He appeared to have hit his head sideways on, and the CS helmet is very easy to compress if you squeeze it sideways. Perhaps it was too flexible?

I'm not rubbishing the CS lid, especially as I have just replaced mine after 18 years of hard caving use (I know that was far too long, but I got emotionally attached to it, and it was VERY comfortable). I have now changed to a glass-fibre helmet however.

If you want the comfort of the CS lid, with the strength and durability of glass-fibre, then you could get an Elderid "Full-Carbon". It's the same shape as the CS, but is very expensive. I have one that I use for climbing, but I can't quite bring myself to drill it for a lamp bracket. One day maybe?

 

[AndyF]

There seem to be two thoughts on this , either a "crumple zone" type eg the glass fibre/ carbon fibre or the "flexible" type, eg the CS. I guess one could find good/bad scenarios for each. The crumple zone may be good for one hit, but can give on the second/third etc, so may be less good for rolling down a hill.

One thing I saw recently was a "Camp" brand lid. It had no webbing, rather a very hard internal polystyrene foam layer. It struck me that that would provide almost no absorbtion, this stuff is hard to compress, and could surely transfer shock straight to the skull. I was very surprised by this design.

 

[ian mckenzie]

The crumple zone may be good for one hit, but can give on the second/third etc,

If you mean what I think, I've seen these; they crack easily and puncture under normal caving use (bumps on the ceiling etc) and need to be protected with wide cloth tape before use. Never liked them.

 

[SamT]

I'm often surprised walking around the crags at the number of peeps doing 'ard routes where falling off seems to be the norm who aren't wearing lids.

Falling off does seem to involve getting tangled on ropes and ending up upside down with fair frequency, I'm amazed there aren't more serious injuries on this score.

I climbed virtually full time, for about 15 years. I only ever took to wearing a helmet when we were on lundy, then this rubbed off onto all sea cliffs - gogarth, pembroke etc - but I still dont wear one on the grit.

Its very odd, I sure there are lots of people who didnt really take to wearing seat belts after they changed the law.


I still consider my helmet (when climbing) to be protection from falling rock. not really for protection during a fall - which is completely daft I know. Thats why I dont wear one on the grit as there is virtually no chance of falling rock - bar millstone maybe.

I think the tide is changing though, and many more people wear helmets on the crags these days.

 

[mudmonkey]

Maybe the Camp lid with no webbing is designed to distribute, rather than absorb, the impact?

 

[AndyF]

Maybe the Camp lid with no webbing is designed to distribute, rather than absorb, the impact?

It struck me that a rock impact on the top would go straight to the skull, and hence to the spine. Not good.

I would never use a non-cradle design myself. Have a look at the Camp lids next time you're in a shop, I think you'll see what I mean...

 

[Stu]

Maybe the Camp lid with no webbing is designed to distribute, rather than absorb, the impact?

It struck me that a rock impact on the top would go straight to the skull, and hence to the spine. Not good.

I would never use a non-cradle design myself. Have a look at the Camp lids next time you're in a shop, I think you'll see what I mean...

They do work. Cycle helmets have been designed like this for a while. They are though, as has been said, a one hit design. They basically "break" around your noggin.

I personally wouldn't use one as the instances aside from caving when I wear a lid are climbing/mountaineering and in situations where repeated rockfall is likely. A lid that has "broken" doesn't give much protection from repeated rockfalls. At least the cheap and cheerful plastic/cradle design offers some protection.

 

[AndyF]

Maybe the Camp lid with no webbing is designed to distribute, rather than absorb, the impact?

It struck me that a rock impact on the top would go straight to the skull, and hence to the spine. Not good.

I would never use a non-cradle design myself. Have a look at the Camp lids next time you're in a shop, I think you'll see what I mean...

They do work. Cycle helmets have been designed like this for a while. They are though, as has been said, a one hit design. They basically "break" around your noggin.

I think cycle helmets I've seen are different in that they don't have the hard plastic shell. This allows local abrasion/compaction of the foam as you are skidding along on your head.

It's rather like poking your finger into a ceiling tile, then put 2mm sheet of plastic over it and try it again.

They are "UIAA approved" so I suppose testing must have been done, but I still don't like the idea, and no other manufacturer seems to have followed it.

 

[Stu]

Don't exactly know the specific helmet your talking about. The Petzl Meteor and another one (Cassin) are the ones I've had experience of and sound similar. They will be safe. A little like wire gate Krab's. First time I saw one I fell about laughing. Thought someone had placed a paper clip onto an old Krab!