• The Derbyshire Caver, No. 158

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rift pot [ allotment ] rigging ?

Andyj23UK

New member
hi - we have a permit for a long kin east // rift pot trip - but are struggling to find out what rift is rigged from

we have rope lengths - but its stated - " no eco hangers "

so do we need any hangers [ if so what type ] or a bunch of slings ?

all help appreciated :)

long kin east is in the new CNCC book - so thats covered
 

MarkS

Moderator
From slightly vague memory, there are a variety of bolts at the top - a mixture of long lifes and spits. I think further down it may have turned into spits alone, so standard 8mm bolts should be fine to see you down. I seem to remember we struggled to find anchors in good condition for the final descent.

I'm sure someone else will know with a little more certainty!
 

Simon Wilson

New member
On a recent recce trip down there it was impossible to get to the bottom. The Spits on the original route are all now very dubious. The one on Pinnacle Pitch was extremely dodgy but being a deviation it was used. There is a single Long Life at the top of the last pitch but we couldn't get down because the only Spit on the final rebelay is shot. On the main shaft route the Spits on both sides of the main shaft are all shot.

Rift Pot is at the top of my list for resin anchors.
 

Simon Wilson

New member
Andyj23UK said:
hi - we have a permit for a long kin east // rift pot trip - but are struggling to find out what rift is rigged from

we have rope lengths - but its stated - " no eco hangers "

so do we need any hangers [ if so what type ] or a bunch of slings ?

all help appreciated :)

long kin east is in the new CNCC book - so thats covered

Andy, did you read the PM? I can give you more information if you get in touch.
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Great topo - I like the Wainwright style - more please. 

Simon you can be an awkward sod sometimes, but you have done a great job with bringing your new anchors into play and rebolting several caves that really needed it.  Congratulations on this one.
 

richardg

Active member
Now that's a topo worthy of note.......

Simon.... It would be great to see more of your artwork.....
 

Fulk

Well-known member
I note that it says in the guide:

Rift Pot takes no significant stream so it is a safe cave in wet weather.
So here's a cautionary tale:

Sunday 9?2?03 Rift Pot (Allotment)

Sunday 9/2 dawned bright and clear after lashings of overnight rain, and it was with some relief that Miranda, Angus and John contemplated their decision to go to a ?safe, dry, all-weather? cave, to wit, Rift Pot ? that is, the ?old? Rift Pot that connects with Long Kin East up on the Allotment. We parked on the road to Crummockdale and set off up the hill to the cave.
Arrived at the cave, John proceeded to rig it, thankfully having decided not to believe Rose?s tale that it was P-anchored; well some of it is, but the in-situ anchors stop at the bottom of the entrance pitch.
The second (ca. 6 m) pitch proved OK to rig, off old spits, but the third proved somewhat awkward, and eventually we tied the rope round a big rock and abbed off a single spit; over a bad edge there is a rebelay, but unfortunately the rope was not long enough to reach the bottom, in spite of the fact that the pitch was only 6 m or so. Having retreated to the foot of the 2nd pitch, we found that there was enough spare rope to tie onto the third rope and continue the descent.
The next pitch is, effectively, the top (ca. 24 m) section of the last, big pitch that leads down into the bottom of Long Kin East; we had been becoming more and more aware of an ominous rumbling booming up from the depths, which got ever louder as we approached the pitch. The top section proved easy to rig off a nice natural chunk of rock-cum-stal spanning the narrow entrance slot, though a nearby spit was impossible to use as the threads had corroded somewhat. A very easy rebelay about two thirds the way down allowed us to reach the big ledge above the final (ca. 45 m) drop, where the noise of the water pouring down Long Kin East was deafening.
?Our? pitch looked OK apart from one minor problem ? a spout of water that jetted out over the pitch and sprayed down the shaft right where we wanted to be. The rigging was a little bit awkward ? off a block of rock, over some scrappy, slippy loose stuff, and then two awkward-to-reach spits in the far wall. What with one thing and another (chiefly another, in the shape of the water) the rigger was half hoping that these spits, too, would be knackered, thus giving him chance to beat an honourable retreat ? but oh no, the spits (in spite of the fact that one was sticking out a little crookedly) were fine, and gave what appeared to be a good free hang; so far, so good. But about 5 m down the full force of the spout was met. The intrepid rigger was soon piss wet through, and questioning his own sanity, as the water was not only wet (surprise, surprise), but also very, very cold, being as how we?d just reached the end of a cold snap with lots of rain falling on a good covering of snow up on the hills. Down and down, just a bit further ? ?oh, sod it, I can see the floor, might as well go for it rather than bugger about changing over?, and shortly, a very cold, very bedraggled caver reached the bottom, wondering if the other two would be daft enough to follow him; they were, and soon a trio of cold wet cavers were contemplating their own stupidity and mortality, and wondering if it might be better to find somewhere dry to sit and wait for the water levels to go down a bit.
The climb back up proved to be very long, cold, wet and trying, but eventually I reached the top. Rarely have I been so glad to see the top of a pitch, arriving there extremely cold and anxious; it was a huge relief to see first Miranda?s light and then Angus?s light appear a few feet down, and we beat a very hasty retreat, eventually arriving at the Marton Arms to a much-needed pint (and a crap little fire).
That was not the wettest pitch I?ve ever done (I have ?fond? memories of derigging Flood Entrance Big Pitch after heavy rain, which was wetter but that was in summer and only affected the bottom several metres), but it was probably the most sustained ? all the way from the bottom to a few metres from the top, and very, very cold. With hindsight, it was probably certainly an error of judgement; still, we lived to tell the tale (and, no doubt, to relive it around a roaring fire in the pub).
The sort of cold where you think you?re prusiking really slowly but in reality you?re going quite fast :). M.

I don't know whether the new bolts follow the line of these old ones, but if they do . . . beware in wet weather!
 

Inferus

New member
I recall reading about similar trips (in supposedly safe caves) when rain on snow and melting of snow made things somewhat wet and cold rather quickly. A spell of wet weather (like this weekend for example) might briefly create a similar situation but perhaps less cold - it sounds like the cold melting snow was the problem on the above report? A very good spray lashing is acceptable, when it's a reasonable sized stream pulsing direct on your head then it becomes tricky (that is an unpleasant experience to say the least).

Reading the above I'd guess it was certainly worthy of note, but of no major concern in most usual wet conditions and I'd still suggest 'Old' Rift was suitable in most wet conditions.
 

Fulk

Well-known member
Fair comment, Inferus; I don't know how much rain there had been the night before, and how much snow there had been up on the fell, and I guess that conditions were far from normal. Still, it happened!

The rigging topo seems to indicate that the new bolts are very close to the old ones at the bottom of the narrow 4th pitch; I seem to recall that there is a ledge there, and if you follow it along you reach some big old bolts (rawlbolts?) about half way along; these used to allow a dry descent with at least one rebelay, but I think that the old spits for this/these rebelay(s) is/are now knackered (or maybe it was a rebelay and a deviation?).
 

Simon Wilson

New member
Fulk said:
Fair comment, Inferus; I don't know how much rain there had been the night before, and how much snow there had been up on the fell, and I guess that conditions were far from normal. Still, it happened!

The rigging topo seems to indicate that the new bolts are very close to the old ones at the bottom of the narrow 4th pitch; I seem to recall that there is a ledge there, and if you follow it along you reach some big old bolts (rawlbolts?) about half way along; these used to allow a dry descent with at least one rebelay, but I think that the old spits for this/these rebelay(s) is/are now knackered (or maybe it was a rebelay and a deviation?).

I have gone to great pains to get the rigging as good as it could be on this the first cave to be announced as having IC anchors. I had the cave rigged when it snowed and then rained on melting snow and I took the opportunity to inspect the routes and decide on anchor positions in those very wet conditions. I decided that the way to rig the main shaft was to replace the two spits on the right that Fulk used twelve years ago. That gives a nice free hang off a simple Y with an easy take-off and no rebelay or deviation. I wanted to make the cave technically easy because it makes a good trip for relative beginners. I could have made the main shaft drier by either a deviation or rigging from the other side with a rebelay. Both would be technically more difficult to use and would have needed more anchors. The deviation would have required extra bolts in order to get into position to install the deviation anchor. I did not think it necessary to make it drier when there is a drier alternative.

One of the guiding principles agreed by the installers group is the keep the number of anchors installed to a minimum. The Bob Hole/Main Shaft route is done with only five anchors.

In the guide I have said that the main shaft "gets a tad dribbly in wet weather". I could have said more but I think it indicates that in wet weather you can do it, you won't drown on the rope but you'll get wet with a bit more than just drips. In the sentence before that I say that at this point "the two routes connect and you can cross over." Because I have not mentioned water on the YRC 1904 route I think those two sentences together indicate that in wet weather the old route is the drier alternative. I could have put more detail into the route descriptions but the descriptions have been deliberately written in such a way as to give enough indication to follow the route but to leave enough of a sense of adventure in doing the trip.
 

droid

Active member
Economy of fixings: I like the sound of that.

Looks like you have done a sound (and needed) job, Simon. Congrats. You are right that the trip is a good one for relative beginners. It's a good trip anyway.
 

Simon Wilson

New member
Several people have commented on the right hand Main Shaft route being wet. I've done it in very high water levels and I wouldn't say it's at all dangerous, just a bit uncomfortable.

Leaving the Petzl Longlife P38 anchors in place has also received a few negative comments. I have changed my mind about the long term reliability of that type of anchor.

John Gardiner contacted me and told me that one of my rope lengths on the topo was a bit short.

For those reasons I have been back to Rift Pot, replaced 11 Petzl Longlifes, installed resin anchors on the left hand Main Shaft route and updated the topo. The new route has three hanging rebelays so it makes the trip a bit more technical and perhaps less of a novice trip than the other routes but it splits the pitch up nicely. Having been back to it I do think the left hand route is the best route in the cave.

The link to the new topo is here - http://www.resinanchor.co.uk/6.html
 

hannahb

Active member
Yes we noted some of the rope lengths were a bit short, and we weren't sure whether the old anchors were included in the guide or not, but overall it was very straightforward, so thank you for the installation and for the lovely description & topo.
 

Cavematt

Well-known member
Great work Simon, and on behalf of the CNCC, thanks for your efforts here. I know Rift Pot had evaded resin anchors for quite a while due to the loose nature of the rock, so coupled with the long hike up there I'm sure this wasn't an easy task. Having enjoyed two trips down Rift recently (via the route you anchored previously) it has definitely become one of my top wet-weather trips. I can't wait to do the Long Kin East to Rift exchange at some point in the future.
 
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