Rigging and upsetting people

[Stu]

A couple of threads had some interesting points to make about rigging and elements thereof. I'm not a member of a club and cave with two or three close friends who I know and trust. I generally do most of the rigging because:
a) It's my kit!
b) I like rigging
c) I'm quicker
d) They never complain (and if they ever do they're chucked!! )
e) I trust no one

The occassions when I've caved with other teams I upset them by changing the rigging when it came to my turn. A quick change of a strand of rope here and a tie off there.

Now from bitter experience (which thankfully didn't lead to disaster) I have developed point e) to an almost paranoid level. Leave nothing to chance. But this does mean I can get a bit anti social when my natural instinct for self preservation kicks in.

I'd cave on my own all the time if it wasn't so sad and I didn't need to haul sacks of tackle by myself (though if/when Jon reads this I may well soon be!!)

How do others few this and they're own experiences?

 

[paul]

Sure, if I'm caving in a group and following somebody else's rigging, I'm not a fraid to make any changes if I feel it is warranted. Ususally there's good natured ribbing, but when it is realised that there was a valid reason then nobody objects.

One club member who had a nasty injury some time back when a bolt (spit as opposed to P) popped out on him always rigs pitches like piano wire which is a pain in the arse...

 

[SamT]

Im sure everyone is the same.

When you join a club, you do get to go caving with other people and you do make up your mind pretty quickly who you trust and who you want to avoid caving with.
(the advantage of joining the Eldon is the fairly strict membership policy, good natural caving abilities, SRT competent and generally not a wanker)

I have spent years climbing in that world, since you work as a pair (generally) you build up strong relationships with your partners since you are often placing your life in their hands.

This isn't quite as common in caving since the safety issues surrounding SRT. However - when you are pushing caves - chokes especially - there are definatley only a couple of people i'd go with.

I have quite a strong sense of preservation and wouldn;t hesitate to alter someones rigging if I thought it was shoddy. I can see how people get upset though - dents their pride dont it.

Just like when you try and change lanes in a traffic queue. "whats he tryin to do - fookin wanker - he's not getting in here - yaarrrhh - ya c*** - take that - etc etc.

 

[bubba]

If I'm going to go do an SRT trip then it's going to be with people that I trust to rig to my standard or beyond - luckily the people I cave with are all very competent, or if not, are willing to learn.

If I felt like I couldn't alter somebody elses incorrect ropework, or make a comment to them as to what I thought they'd done wrong, then I almost certainly wouldn't be caving with those people in the first place.

Likewise, people can (and do) point out my errors without me spitting out my dummy...

 

[SamT]

I generally do most of the rigging

could well be worth imparting your knowledge to the other guys and letting them practice a little - they may one day need to rig something without your assistance - i.e. If one of the clumsy buggers kicks a rock off onto your heed. :wink:

 

[cap n chris]

I'd cave on my own all the time if it wasn't so sad

What's so wrong with caving on your own; OK, so after a while the conversation can get a bit dull since you usually know what you're going to say to yourself next but all round it's usually quite pleasant.


:weirdo:

 

[bubba]

This is my favourite story for putting people of solo caving:

http://www.yeandle4879.fsnet.co.uk/solo.htm

 

[SamT]

It is a classic. the thing is - he was 'quite' well prepeared. Its the diving into sumps bit thats scary.

 

[bubba]

He was a nutter - nearly gets washed off over a waterfall at the end too :shock:

Great story though. I must go do Dowbergill again - I think when I did it that sump was just a little duck under a boulder!

 

[Stu]

I generally do most of the rigging

could well be worth imparting your knowledge to the other guys and letting them practice a little - they may one day need to rig something without your assistance - i.e. If one of the clumsy buggers kicks a rock off onto your heed. :wink:

a) they never bloody listen...somehow they think I'm a pompous ass!!!
b) they wouldn't dare!!! :twisted:

 

[ian mckenzie]

I used to cave with a bunch of novices, and could have been in the same boat as Stu - doing all the rigging. But as a teaching tool, I got into the habit of always asking my mates to check my rigging - as much to teach as to get them to do the same (i.e. ask me to check their rigging). I was surprised that on occasion they actually had some valid critiques of my rigging.

Both I and the 'novices', who are now all competent cavers, still invite our teammates to review our rigging as a matter of course. It is both pride in our rigging abilities and an honest desire to make things as safe as possible that keeps us doing this. It is the best possible policy.

I should mention that many of our pitches are not bolted and are rigged off naturals, so good rigging is somewhat more of a challenge.

 

[Jonathan T]

I'd cave on my own all the time if it wasn't so sad and I didn't need to haul sacks of tackle by myself

You already are the former, get fit and lose the puppy fat and you'll be able to do the latter.

Waterfall Hole on Sunday if it's not wet but we need two ladders. You can carry them as practice.

 

[Stu]

Eldon dear boy, Eldon!! Huff huff!!!! Or was it Alum???

 

[mickw]

how often do you find sumeone has over rigd you this gets me mad :evil: :x

 

[dunc]

how often do you find sumeone has over rigd you this gets me mad

Seems to be a rarer event these days thankfully.. Is that a reflection on the state of caving or the choice of strange holes I visit :roll:

But yes, when it does happen its a pain in the arse.. Will never forget Sell Gill on a wet day about 4 years back - spag bol had nothing on the dry route!! :silly:

 

[diggerdog adam]

Sell Gill Dry Route What a good example!

How many P hanges are there now on the traverse? Some folk seem to think just because theres a hanger lets use it and before you know it you have a cats cradle!

Pitty the effort wasn't put in to moving the dead sheep instead !

 

[Dave H]

I'm with Ian - always train everyone to be able to rig and I make sure that everyone checks the rigging before they descend.

I had a nightmare a fortnight ago when standing on a narrow ledge, overhanging a large pitch, I couldn't tie the Y-hang (fig-8 on bight?) knot.
After 5 attempts I was about to get one of the others to rig the pitch (attempt 6 - I closed my eyes and did it no problem!) - But I was not unduely worried, as I knew anyone of my mates could have rigged it.
If everyone is capable, and everyone checks everything, and everyone is happy with the rigging, I reccon that it must be OK.

 

[dunc]

Sell Gill Dry Route What a good example!

Indeed, can get a bit overcrowded in there at times can't it!

Pitty the effort wasn't put in to moving the dead sheep instead !

They have dead sheep in there aswell? Must be more recent non-srt-competent baa's descending it then..

I had a nightmare a fortnight ago when standing on a narrow ledge, overhanging a large pitch, I couldn't tie the Y-hang (fig-8 on bight?) knot

Nightmare when that happens, other week I was perched over the final pitch of Juniper trying to tie an alpine butterfly - after a few attempts at my normal method of tying I wasn't happy so I tried a different way of tying it - bingo, first time! :?

 

[cap n chris]

Is it nerves that makes knot-tying whilst on a big pitch head difficult? You know... all fingers and thumbs, murmuring "ohmigod"...

 

[Dave H]

Is it nerves that makes knot-tying whilst on a big pitch head difficult? You know... all fingers and thumbs, murmuring "ohmigod"...

YUP!!!!!


My finger tips are sweaty just thinking about it again.

What's funny though is that I've rigged more exposed pitch heads dozens of times without that problem. Perhaps closing my eyes to tie the knot solved two problems - I just tied the knot on auto-pilot AND I couldn't see the view!

It's probably all down to how you feel on the day, and some days we all feel a bit more vulnerable.