Rock falls

Duck ditch

New member
According to this ?fictional book? I?m reading.  Rockfalls are observed by cavers regularly.  Cavers doing the same trip also note new rockfalls every other trip.
I?m wondering if anybody has observed a rockfall not caused by digging activities?
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
Not observed as such but the ruckle in Eastwater Cavern once slumped as I was going through it. I was only just off route too! Scared the living daylights out of me as I wondered where I could safely go.
 

Ed W

Member
About 30 years ago in Steve's Endevour Rift on Portland.  A group of us were descending a rift climb down to a boulder slope floor, which dropped about 2m just before the first member of the party was about to step on it.  A quite spectacular and gusset darkening experience.

Also a cave in Iceland which acquired a new entrance in between two visits 2 years apart.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Earthquakes. It's been discussed on this forum before now . . .

Here's an example:

 

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mrodoc

Well-known member
A quote: "We continued on our journey until Dave went on t0 check that our route was correct. He had been gone a minute when we heard a rumble roar and crash and ducked involuntarily ...my first experience of a spontaneous avalanche of rocks nearby and not set off by anyone."  This was my father writing in 1974 about a Marble Showers trip in OFD. Later on traversing round a drop the flake he was holding detached onto his leg. Fortunately he was lined at the time and was able to let it  plummet down. Not surprising as I expect Marble Showers traverses had received relatively few visitors at that time. I first did it as it looked interesting on the survey - it was!
 

Brains

Well-known member
Not seen any non-digging collapses, but heard one in Wapping, and another in Swinsto. Nothing to see from the former (maybe another mine near by?) but a pile of rocks in the streamway from the later. Not bad for nearly 40 years of lurking in the dark...
 

tim.rose2

Active member
As Ed points out Portland caves are prone to throwing stones.  Mostly due to lack of use.  The pitch in Persil got 6ft taller the first time I went in there.  Always remember that one as somebody ended up wedged in the rift by their elbows with feet flapping around in thin air.  Was very funny for everyone else as no harm was done to said caver.  Grove Cliff Fissure has thrown rocks us lot too.  That's purely down to lack of use, I'd guess prior to us first visiting the place had only been visited a handful of times since discovery.  After the connection was made we did some gardening to improve things, so much better now.  Bits still falling off the walls in places though but that will only improve with some traffic.

The other place that's thrown rocks at me unprovoked was Ifolds series in Eastwater - strayed off route trying to get into West End. 
 

Ed W

Member
Tim,  in the Portland Rift caves this is probably as much because the rifts are active (I love Nigel Graham's description of the island "fraying round the edges") as it is from lack of traffic.  Certainly in the 80s/90s the Grove Cliff system saw traffic levels comparable to to Goatchurch with a plethora of outdoor education groups.
 

tim.rose2

Active member
I'm specifically on about Grove Cliff Fissure which is accessed further along the cliff line a few metres from Rumble Chasm.  We connected those two to Skittle Alley in 2018 / 2019.  Clearly neither had been visited in a long while and certainly never frequently.  Having spoken to Nigel about them I suspect the number of visits prior to 2018 could be counted on one hand.  Loose stuff all over the place and very little evidence of people having been in.  The difference compared to the well visited rifts of Flagpole, Skittle Alley and Guano was very stark.  As you say those were heavily used in 80's, 90's and 00's and are consequently fairly free of loose rock unless you go looking for it. 

I've no doubt the rifts remain active (bits of the cliff regularly fall off) but footfall seems to have cleaned things up far quicker than geological processes can create new loose stuff.  I can't think I've ever seen evidence of 'new' loose stuff, rather remaining choss that nobody had so far touched.

Last summer we noticed a few loose bits had fallen from the roof of Hopeless near the entrance.  A week or so beforehand the climbers had reported some movement on the cliff outside.  Despite this my betting was on somebody twatting the ceiling with their helmet and dislodging something that wasn't as stable as it perhaps looked.  Who knows really.  I've certainly seen evidence of the caves throwing stones, but compared to human aided movement personally I think it's very rare once the initial loose stuff after discovery has dropped.  That time period is obviously foot fall dependent. 

There was of course the total b*****ks about a loose boulder in Flagpole around the mid 00's which led to the end of outdoor education groups using the cave.
 
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