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Seeking Information

Gruber

New member
Hello All,
Firstly, an apology. I am not a caver or speleologist but, through my fondness for mountains I dabble in geology as a member of the University of the Third Age.

I am preparing a presentation for my local U3A group about some geological features in the Pyrenees and I'm wondering if any members of this forum could help me.

I've been looking at an area on the French-Spanish border near the village of Gavarnie. Two features in particular have taken my interest, viz: the Resurgence Brulle and the Grotte Deveaux both of which are high up on the walls of the Cirque de Gavarnie

Has anyone been to this area and do you have any information about these features.

Many thanks in anticipation.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
I know that Grotte Deveaux is one of the ice caves of Maboré, albeit not as long or as impressive as the more famous Grotte Chevalier. The Brulle resurgence is the outlet for a system that drains Mont Perdu / Monte Perdido in Spain.
 

Gruber

New member
Thanks for the reply. Are the resurgence and the Grotte in some way connected. Also, I have a diagram of the Grotte Deveaux but I'm not sure if it's a plan view or a sideways view. What's normal for cave diagrams? I believe there is also some sort of connection with the (smaller) lake below Perdido near the Col du Cylindre.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Thanks for the reply. Are the resurgence and the Grotte in some way connected. Also, I have a diagram of the Grotte Deveaux but I'm not sure if it's a plan view or a sideways view. What's normal for cave diagrams? I believe there is also some sort of connection with the (smaller) lake below Perdido near the Col du Cylindre.

The resurgence and the cave have their own entrances, but are connected internally by two or three cross-passages. I have read that the total cave passage length is supposed to be about 2.5 km., with the resurgence passage being no more than 200 metres long, but the cave doesn't penetrate the hill by more than 800 metres. The river is encountered again at the back of the Grotte Devaux,

Your diagram is probably a plan – there is little vertical development.

If you are referring to the Lac Glace, I believe that to be 200 metres below Grotte Devaux, so it seems unlikely. However, I would like to stress that I know very little about the area, or its caves.

The only relevant book I know is "Gavarnie: Les Grottes Glacées du Marboré" by Pierre Bernand and Manuel van Thienen, published in 1987.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
A bit of Googling brought up the following reference (with spelling Devaux):
http://espeleologiabibliografia.blogspot.com/2012/03/grottes-et-canyons-minvielle.html?m=1
The diagram contains a North arrow, therefore it is a plan view. It shows the connection with the resurgence.

That information is a lot more definitive than I had!

The article does say that the water resurging from the Bruhl has been dye-tested from "the underground spillway of the Lac Glacé". I still find this weird, as the survey confirms that the cave is at an altitude of a little over 2,800 metres, and my 1:25,000 map indicates that the lake is at an altitude of less than 2,600 metres.

Capture.JPG



The resurgence and cave are bottom right in the above extract from the IGN 1:25,000, and the Lac Glacé is the obvious lake.
 

Gruber

New member
That information is a lot more definitive than I had!

The article does say that the water resurging from the Bruhl has been dye-tested from "the underground spillway of the Lac Glacé". I still find this weird, as the survey confirms that the cave is at an altitude of a little over 2,800 metres, and my 1:25,000 map indicates that the lake is at an altitude of less than 2,600 metres.

View attachment 14442


The resurgence and cave are bottom right in the above extract from the IGN 1:25,000, and the Lac Glacé is the obvious lake.
I think we are looking at two different lakes, albeit with similar names. My reference was the lake at 42*40.873'N; 0*01.603E and is referred to on the IGN map as "Etang Glace" with an elevation of just over 3000m according to the contours. The other lake is very much larger and is about a mile to the NNE and is shown on the map as "Lac Glace"
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
I think we are looking at two different lakes, albeit with similar names. My reference was the lake at 42*40.873'N; 0*01.603E and is referred to on the IGN map as "Etang Glace" with an elevation of just over 3000m according to the contours. The other lake is very much larger and is about a mile to the NNE and is shown on the map as "Lac Glace"

That makes sense. I must have walked past it, but I don't remember it. But there was quite a lot of snow cover at the time.

I once ascended Monte Perdido from the Brèche du Roland, and we bivvied somewhere to the east of Pic Occidental where there was a small source of water, and a couple of small shafts which had obviously been descended. They may also be associated with the system.
 

Leclused

Active member
Perhaps you can try and contact some locals via ARSIP

their FB page : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1051397474910156/
their site : http://arsip.fr/

A few members of SC Avalon did a trip to the ice caves of Casteret in 2015 via Breche de Roland

their trip report

And their photo album : https://get.google.com/albumarchive...5Q2U0xZFMZs3qx2DbsDGpPOK4-QYMrDt?noredirect=1
 

Gruber

New member
To ALL who responded to my enquiry. A quick word to say many thanks for the very useful information you were able to provide. I'm interest to find out if there is indeed any physical connection between the Etang Glace and the Grotte Devaeux/Resurgence Brulle. I'm going to try contacting French caving/geology people.
I was also reading about the discovery of the Grotte Deveaux. Interesting that Deveaux viewed it by telescope from the Pic du Midi Observatory. I plotted a line from the Observatory to the Grotte(18 miles) and, with the intervening summits, it appears to only just be intervisible.
Thanks again.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
I'm interest to find out if there is indeed any physical connection between the Etang Glace and the Grotte Devaeux/Resurgence Brulle. I'm going to try contacting French caving/geology people.
It has been dye tested, so you can be sure that there is a hydrological connection. But I'm sure that the whole caving world would know if a negotiable route had been established between the two!
 
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