Severn barrage

[Peter Burgess]

You know, Wookey, you are absolutely right.  :bow:

 

[whitelackington]

I would imagine a rise in sea level would have a similar effect to both wildlife and Otter Hole ........

...and i think the possible climate changes due to global warming would mess species around considerably more.
Surely a tidal barrage would not have that drastic effects, i mean it only slows down the rate of change of the tide, it doesn't flood any extra land does it?

No, I wasn't implying that any extra land would be flooded due to a barrage being built. I was trying to suggest, as you, that if these ideas aren't given due consideration, on the grounds of a small (comparatively) environmental cost, then the cost of the national & global implications become huge. Having said that, obviously one barrage in one tidal estuary wont make a whole heap of difference. If the figures are right and there is potential to generate the equivalent of three nukes then, in my opinion, it has to be considered.
There are many downsides though - sure the current ecology also has to be considered - as Peter said - a good chunk of the Mendips would disappear into it. Also the future of Bristol as a port would be in doubt. However there are many coastal cities, including Bristol, that would become somewhat soggy if global warming continues.
Cutting consumption is an excellent idea - probably not one our political lords and masters really adhere to - consumption usually means spending that results in taxation.

Chris - only a third of my fields are likely to get flooded in the near future -and they're rented! Also they're also in an ESA, SSSI and Ramsar site which makes them comparably unproductive. So as sea levels rise these environmental areas will gradually be lost - to us and it's current flora and fauna.

Food for thought - in 50 years time the global demand for food is predicted to have trebled. I think our descendants will have a different view on the environment then. Watch the Brazilians 'slash and burn'. Sorry - off topic.

I have an idea Hughie,
Strip off the soil from half your fields ( the most unproductive ones),
tip soil in two big heaps, top soil & other.
Rent stripped land for land fill.

After landfil is full, put back subsoil, then topsoil.
Reseed.
Next year move animals to new higher fields.
If all goes relatively well, do the same with the other half.
Repeat on most of the levels, then construct The Seven Barrage.

 

[gus horsley]

Here's an update, draw your own conclusions:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/news/details.asp?id=tcm:9-241222

 

[whitelackington]

Yes The Barrage is back on the agenda
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20190869

 

[gus horsley]

It's never going to go away is it?  Another example of putting out an outrageous proposal, apparently allowing it to crumble under pressure, then trying to slide it in again through the back door.  Multiple times in this case.

 

[whitelackington]

It's never going to go away is it?  Another example of putting out an outrageous proposal, apparently allowing it to crumble under pressure, then trying to slide it in again through the back door.  Multiple times in this case.

You should embrace the future Guss
Only renewable can have a future

 

[ttolyaj]

I was working for the Generating Board when this was first discussed, more of a worry is the amount of stone required. If they used Mendip stone there would be no Mendip's left it that sort of amount. Then they were talking about shipping stone fom Italy to build it, but its a hell of an amount of material.

 

[gus horsley]

You should embrace the future Guss
Only renewable can have a future

I am embracing the future but the Severn barrage doesn't figure in it.  As the previous post implies, what would you do without the Mendips, Forest of Dean and Brecon Beacons, because that's where the core would come from: limestone from those caving regions, tens of billions of tons of it.  In addition there's the multiple losses of habitats for waders etc and the estimated 4 billion tons of facing limestone from abroad.  Nope, the Barrage can f**k off as far as I'm concerned.

 

[whitelackington]

Another massive advantage of  a Severn Barrage could be a new road link between Somerset and Wales, bloody handy for cavers,
it would also be good for the economies of Wales and the South West. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-20204666 

 

[Speleofish]

I accept that a Severn Barrage, once complete, would produce large amounts of green energy at the expense of potentially devaastating loss of habitat for waders etc. However, I hadn't really thought of where the construction material would come from, nor the ecological cost of building it. Has anyone worked out how many decades/centuries the thing would have to operate for before the true environemental debt was repaid?

 

[cavermark]

This is excellent as ideas go, let's spend billions on protecting against such a credible risk as tsunami's. When was the last one?  :-\
Why not spend loads of money on preventing earthquakes and volcanoes as well? They have happened in the past as well you know.

But who's protecting us from dinosaurs - that's what I want to know!

 

[graham]

But who's protecting us from dinosaurs - that's what I want to know!

These guys.

This is excellent as ideas go, let's spend billions on protecting against such a credible risk as tsunami's. When was the last one?  :-\
Why not spend loads of money on preventing earthquakes and volcanoes as well? They have happened in the past as well you know.

Well, actually a lot of money has been spent on tsunami early warning systems, earthquake early warning systems and volcanic eruption early warning systems. In Italy people have been convicted for getting it wrong.

 

[cavermark]

Scary stuff, Graham, real shame.

 

[JohnMCooper]

I think the last tsunami to hit Somerset was about 400 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Channel_floods,_1607

 

[Andy Farrant]

I think the last tsunami to hit Somerset was about 400 years ago.

More likely to be a storm surge. Some of the evidence that Haslett and Bryant give for a tsunami really doesn't stack up, and can be explained by normal geomorphological processes. Kevin Horsburgh at the Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory told me that he was pretty convinced it was a storm surge, not a tsunami.

Personally I think  tidal and wind turbines are the way forward in the Severn Estuary, not a barrage. But energy efficiency is a far cheaper and simpler option - start acting now and maybe we won't need a barrage.

 

[graham]

But energy efficiency is a far cheaper and simpler option - start acting now and maybe we won't need a barrage.

Which Wookey said on this thread 3 years ago. So who hasn't had their insulation done yet?

 

[gus horsley]

Another massive advantage of  a Severn Barrage could be a new road link between Somerset and Wales, bloody handy for cavers,

Aaaarghhh.  If it gets built there won't be any point because there won't be many caves left.  About 30 years ago, when a smaller version of the barrage was proposed, approximately 150 quarrying licenses for limestone were approved in the Mendips and Wales, based on interim development orders granted after the 2nd World War.  I know this because I was heavily involved in the attempts to get them stopped and, although a victory appeared to have been achieved at the time, I don't think they've gone away.  At the time the Severn barrage was recognised for what it has always been, and that's got very little to do with saving the Planet, more like lining the pockets of major civil engineering firms. 

I don't find your arguments very convincing Mick but maybe I'm just being cynical.

 

[whitelackington]

Ed Davey says ?30,000,000,000 Severn Barrage back on the governments agenda
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20710783
In October former Deputy Prime Minister Lord Heseltine said it potentially offered "extraordinary economic regeneration". 

 

[gus horsley]

:thumbsdown:

No further printable comment

 

[SimonMW]

If you want to see what the results of a barrage are on rivers that have a tidal bore and a similar silt level to the Severn look no further than the tributaries of the Bay of Fundy. They are spending millions taking down their barrage projects because of the damage that they caused. What they ended up with was hundreds of square miles of mud. Engineers on the Bay of Fundy projects are on record as saying that they are absolutely astounded that people want to build a Severn barrage given their experiences in Canada.

What is rarely ever considered is that the Severn Bore isn't just an amazing spectacle, it is intrinsic to the eco system of the river. It keeps the silt in suspension and effectively flushes out the system.