Smoking in caves/mines - opinions?

[tomferry]

totally unacceptable in an enclosed space. I cant comprehend why anyone in todays world would find this acceptable underground or in an enclosed space, the smell to some people (like me) is quite revolting.

agree. myself and another member of my group were coughing quite severely when the smoke got super dense

The smoke got super dense ? Was you in a coffin level ? I have honestly smoked in mines for years and never made dense  smoke even with everyone of the group smoking also  4/5 of us at least , are you sure their was not a fire going some where ?

 

[LJR]

Obviously smoking in coal mines has never been a good idea and has been illegal for many years. Other mines often allowed smoking until the law banned indoor smoking in public places.
We used to drop off our geologist to look at something and return a couple of hours later to collect him, homing in to his location by the smell of smoke as we drove along with the Land Rover windows open.
I presume that as old mines and caves are "public places" it is technically illegal to smoke in them?

 

[mrodoc]

If you want smoke so dense you can only see about a metre a trip into Dan yr Ogof on October 31st will more than satisfy your curiousity

 

[sinker]

Can't comment on caves, as I'm not a caver and haven't been in one in years.

As far as mines go, doesn't bother me.
I was a VERY heavy smoker for years; Benson & Hedges rang me up and asked me leave the amateur game behind and turn professional 
After I quit a few years ago I was the worst anti-smoker in the world; I would cross the street to avoid the smell.
Smoking underground in mines leaves no permanent damage as far as I can tell, the smell disperses quickly and as long as the rubbish is disposed of I'm ok with it. All the miners back in the day would be smokers so it's not a "new" smell 

Slightly 'off topic'; we did the Pandora through trip a few years ago and I was running late from work and VERY tired so I went in from the opposite direction and waited at a convenient spot half way and got my head down for a kip under an ore hopper while I waited for the rest of the group to meet me. Slept for about 40 minutes but was woken up by the faint smell of cigarette smoke. About an hour later they turned up! The smoke had drifted outwards on the natural venting but had taken a hell of a time to get there. 

 

[Paul Marvin]

Can't comment on caves, as I'm not a caver and haven't been in one in years.

As far as mines go, doesn't bother me.
I was a VERY heavy smoker for years; Benson & Hedges rang me up and asked me leave the amateur game behind and turn professional 
After I quit a few years ago I was the worst anti-smoker in the world; I would cross the street to avoid the smell.
Smoking underground in mines leaves no permanent damage as far as I can tell, the smell disperses quickly and as long as the rubbish is disposed of I'm ok with it. All the miners back in the day would be smokers so it's not a "new" smell 

Slightly 'off topic'; we did the Pandora through trip a few years ago and I was running late from work and VERY tired so I went in from the opposite direction and waited at a convenient spot half way and got my head down for a kip under an ore hopper while I waited for the rest of the group to meet me. Slept for about 40 minutes but was woken up by the faint smell of cigarette smoke. About an hour later they turned up! The smoke had drifted outwards on the natural venting but had taken a hell of a time to get there. 

Would never have thought you were a heavy smoker the way you walk up hills !

 

[sinker]

Would never have thought you were a heavy smoker the way you walk up hills !

Welsh born and bred. Getting up and down hills quickly comes with the territory 

Some Welshmen (Welsh-people...) are born with a strange genetic feature where they have one leg longer than the other.
They only walk around hills, not up and down them.   

 

[RobinGriffiths]

That's similar to the wild haggis...

https://www.thehaggis.com/wild-haggis-all-about-haggis/

 

[sinker]

That's similar to the wild haggis...

https://www.thehaggis.com/wild-haggis-all-about-haggis/

?.since in order for the male of one variety to mate with a female of the other, he must turn to face in the same direction as his intended mate, causing him to lose his balance before he can mount her.

The Welsh do NOT have this problem. 

 

[andrewmcleod]

Nooooooooooooooooooo!

I was horrified the first time I went caving with smokers and they lit up underground, I couldn't believe it    Hated they way the cave smelt of old fag smoke on the way back out.

Fortunately Badlad gave up years ago 

I'm with Pegasus on this one - I'm not normally sensitive to smells, but cigarette smoke is something I'm very, very rarely exposed to and it's horrible when you hit it.

 

[mikem]

It was generally better than the smell of BO & stale beer in nightclubs when they banned it...

 

[Wardy]

Stopping smoking underground has had wide ranging consequences.
Helmets have to had to be re designed to fill the top with foam now there is no requirement to carry your fags there.
Carbide went out of fashion once lights were only used to see by.
Some have now had to resort to eating snacks as an excuse to take a break.
It is no longer compulsory to smoke a pipe in order to have a beard and so now younger folk have beards.
Rizla no longer sponsor caving exhibitions
How we have moved on............

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Really it's up to us to vote with our feet and support UK industry.
I notice Wilsons and co (from Sharrow, established 1737) doesn't currently have clay pipes in stock https://sharrowmills.com/category/clay-pipes what a sad decline of industry. Is that caused by COVID, the general moral turpitude of our youth, or looking closer...  in fact are all of us culpable?

The BCA, NAHMO  and others need to lobby to get legislation passed that to enter a mine founded or cave discovered before WW1, smoking a clay pipe is mandatory for all members of the party over age 14 (unless medically exempt).

We are on the brink of losing our clay pipe manufacturing industry, jobs and tradition both above ground as well as below highlighted by Wardy's excellent post.

Shouldn't we fight for things that matter?

 

[mikem]

What medical exemption means under 14s should smoke...?

 

[AR]

Really it's up to us to vote with our feet and support UK industry.
I notice Wilsons and co (from Sharrow, established 1737) doesn't currently have clay pipes in stock https://sharrowmills.com/category/clay-pipes what a sad decline of industry. Is that caused by COVID, the general moral turpitude of our youth, or looking closer...  in fact are all of us culpable?
lay pipe manufacturing industry, jobs and tradition both above ground as well as below highlighted by Wardy's excellent post.

Probably covid stopping the Barmote Courts being held, or re-enactors gathering to do their thing - they're the only times I've ever seen new clay pipes. PDMHS used to present new members with pipes but I think we stopped doing that ; maybe we need to resurrect that to keep the industry going?

What medical exemption means under 14s should smoke...?

Outbreaks of plague; there were cases of schools in the 17th century requiring their pupils to smoke as it was thought to dispell the miasma that caused plague!

 

[sinker]

It is no longer compulsory to smoke a pipe in order to have a beard and so now younger folk have beards.

 

[pwhole]

When I was at Uni in Sheffield (though I'm from Rotherham, so didn't travel far!), our group got heavily into snuff as one way of staying up all night, and we managed to arrange a tour of Wilson's, which is only ten mins walk from my place now. They were very accommodating and showed us everything - it was truly amazing to see such ancient machinery working smoothly, and the wooden barrels of fresh product maturing everywhere. And the 'special cupboard' where they kept all the essential oils. Naturally we also left with a serious quantity of fresh supplies. They seem to have changed most of their product names since then though, due to law changes, and I don't recognise most of them now.

I do smoke but not underground - I did once, at the 50m landing of a rather special shaft waiting to prussik out as I was last, thinking it it would all go up the shaft like a chimney - it did, but only for 10m and then it stopped, and refused to budge, leaving me and another of our team to prussik up through it. There was less tobacco than usual in that one, so there was some additional grumbling from my colleague initially, but that passed quickly and I didn't hear another peep until 'rope freeee' came floating down. And it smelled nicer. A week later Big Jim got in touch to ask if I'd been down there recently, as he'd abseiled through the same cloud earlier that day, still stuck there at 40m down. Now that's quality.

 

[mikem]

It was also popular back in the day as there was more waiting around on long ladder trips & everyone was cold, before the universification of fleece.

 

[Mark]

John Beck was probably the smokiest person under the earth, and we used to suffer greatly when on digging trips with him, no chance of any photo's either.

It was great when testing for draughts though.

Doug Nash on the other hand smoked a pipe and I found the smell rather pleasant, indeed the smell of Samson tobacco wafting down the heading when working in Sallet hole, heralded the arrival of Doug, with his enormous bag of liquorice allsorts, which were handed out to appease us, while he did some surveying

 

[Mark]

John Beck was probably the smokiest person under the earth, and we used to suffer greatly when on digging trips with him, no chance of any photo's either.

I stand corrected, courtesy of Prof Jon Gunn, a pic of John B and Johnny Morris digging (Big dig 1974), with fag in hand and no smoke.