Spittle Croft Cave, Littondale

[Pitlamp]

By pure co-incidence I happened to be talking to the gamekeeper and also the person who owns most of the land in Penyghent Gill yesterday. The gamekeeper keeps an eye on every inch of the beck bottom as part of his job. He would notice any changes - he's always sending his dogs into holes to root out foxes. The landowner seems a really nice bloke. Best bet, as a generalisation, is always to go and chat initially with whichever tenant farmer has the bit of land in Penyghent Gill you want to dig on. Most of them are OK if you're sensible. Any hole MUST be kept safe for stock (and any coverings must be totally flood proof).

 

[NigR]

By pure co-incidence I happened to be talking to the gamekeeper and also the person who owns most of the land in Penyghent Gill yesterday. The gamekeeper keeps an eye on every inch of the beck bottom as part of his job. He would notice any changes - he's always sending his dogs into holes to root out foxes. The landowner seems a really nice bloke. Best bet, as a generalisation, is always to go and chat initially with whichever tenant farmer has the bit of land in Penyghent Gill you want to dig on. Most of them are OK if you're sensible. Any hole MUST be kept safe for stock (and any coverings must be totally flood proof).

Really sound advice!

So why doesn't someone just go and knock on the door of the farm and ask? I'd do it myself if I wasn't 250 miles away.

 

[Pitlamp]

Note that Spittle Croft is not on the same land as I referred to above. It's also not a normal situation. Direct action (i.e. doing the right thing and going to ask) might be counter productive in this case, as it might just inflame old "wounds" and lead to a situation where the bloke in question just becomes more entrenched.

There are some noted cave explorers who have quietly operated in this area for many years. Some of them know every farmer in the Dale - you'd be better off doing some ground work first and really find out all the ins and outs before deciding on the best course of action. Talk to those with real experience in that area. A little background research will soon lead you to the right cavers to ask.

I'm NOT attempting to put anyone off; just trying to raise awareness that this one needs to be got right - and it may take considerable time and effort to succeed. Politics - and cave access - are the art of the possible. Tread carefully here . . .

 

[graham]

Note that Spittle Croft is not on the same land as I referred to above. It's also not a normal situation. Direct action (i.e. doing the right thing and going to ask) might be counter productive in this case, as it might just inflame old "wounds" and lead to a situation where the bloke in question just becomes more entrenched.

There are some noted cave explorers who have quietly operated in this area for many years. Some of them know every farmer in the Dale - you'd be better off doing some ground work first and really find out all the ins and outs before deciding on the best course of action. Talk to those with real experience in that area. A little background research will soon lead you to the right cavers to ask.

I'm NOT attempting to put anyone off; just trying to raise awareness that this one needs to be got right - and it may take considerable time and effort to succeed. Politics - and cave access - are the art of the possible. Tread carefully here . . .

Amen to that. Always ask amongst your peers before approaching the landowners.

 

[grahams]

Unfortunately, there is no way that it would be possible to operate quietly in this area due to the proximity of the road and the village. The farmer who was tenant at the time of the discovery of Spittle Croft (Mr. Lund if I remember correctly) was very friendly and interested in what lay below his land but was not keen on our activities. Some of the villagers were complaining to him about our spoil heap and were worried about falling down the hole. The first bit of rain dealt with the spoil and the cave was covered by slabs. At Christmas, we presented Mr. Lund with a bottle of whiskey. Keeping the current tenant informed and plying him with alcohol might be worth a try.

 

[grahams]

I don't know whether this is any use to Cave_Mapper but if you superimpose ULSA's survey on the OS map, Spittle Croft ends approximately 200 metres SE of the confluence of Hesleden Beck and the Skirfare.

 

[grahams]

Ooops, senior moment - Spittle Croft ends approx 200 metres South West of the Skirfare/Helseden confluence.

 

[Bob G]

I am amazed to realise it's over 5 years since this topic became dormant - have there been any developments since 2008?

 

[Paulaner]

I enquired at the Cncc meeting about this cave and permission can be sought from a Mrs Lund .The details are on the Cncc website. I am going to enquire and let you know how I get on!

 

[grahams]

I enquired at the Cncc meeting about this cave and permission can be sought from a Mrs Lund .The details are on the Cncc website. I am going to enquire and let you know how I get on!

Good luck. Here's a couple of points that might be significant -

A couple of years ago, much of the land immediately downstream of Litton village was parcelled into lots of a few acres and sold for 'leisure and sporting activities' by one of the local land agents. The details of the sales are now lost but I noticed that one of the plots included the very pleasant Stonelands Cave. No plots were sold that included Spittle Croft otherwise I might now be proud owner of one of the most extensive caves in the Dales.

The parcels of land downstream of Litton resemble the Gobi Desert in Summer; there is not a drop of water until the Skirfare Main Rising is reached. As some of the rifts in the bed of the Skirfare near to Litton village have been concreted over recently, I wonder whether this is to increase the amount of water that flows through those parcels of land for the 'sporting activities' as per Lathkill? This is pure speculation but if true, the hopes of getting access the Spittle Croft might be increased if cavers were to help with this. The Stainforth Bridge Sink alone for example, takes much of the Skirfare's flow in wet weather (and sucks vast amounts of air when it's dry). Digging this sink and protecting it would keep a lot of water on the surface.

Also of note is the sale of Hesleden Farm. Their land includes parts of Penyghent Gill, the moors above Litton Fosse and the valley floor upstream the the Penyghent Gill/Skirfare confluence.

During our diggings and proddlings in the area 40 years ago  we were on good terms with the farmers thanks to the occasional sheep rescue and the odd bottle of Scotch. Hope this can be restored.

 

[Paulaner]

Thanks for all the replies everyone . I am just a little hesitant to go to the farm and ask due to myself not knowing the full background and reasons to why access to this cave has been a problem. I would also like to know is the entrance open or will it need digging out.
I would be really grateful if people with local knowledge could let me know through a personal message as the last thing I want to do is antagonise anyone or make a bad situation worse . If anyone has any info or advice I would value your opinions . Thanks in advance .
Paul

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[JAA]

Paul, did you make an approach to the Lunds regarding access in the end? Feel free to pm me if that's better.
Cheers
JA

 

[Digger]

Two of us spent quite a bit of time during June & July 2015 investigating various shakeholes and old digs on Cow Close Fell. We did have a significant find. But it is way too high up and too far away to drop into the stream passage beyond Mud Wibble sump, found by GY in '76. So we turned our attention to Wilson's Pasture - in particular, the area above the end of the sump. Honestly, the place is like the Somme - Holes & unfinished digs all over the place. Although we did not have official permission to dig in these areas, we did encounter two farmers on quad bikes. One of them was one of the Lund Brothers. We helped one of them secure chicken wire across a few gates separating the two pastures. It was pretty obvious what our activities were - but they didn't even ask us what we were up to, and seemed quite happy to let us carry on. MUSS carried out a massive amount of work in this area during the '70's - but not much of it seems to have been published. Any other information anybody has - and is willing to share it, please get in touch. Thanks!

 

[Alex]

Its funny enough I was walking about that area today, I noticed an interesting feature or two. Where just East of Halton gill, across the river are two streams that are still flowing despite the dry weather. These streams emerge directly from the hill, one of which appeared to have an un-dug entrance fill of rocks that could be easily shifted. It might be real small or be completely underwater but they warrent looking at. (unless these were already mentioned above).

Two of us spent quite a bit of time during June & July 2015 investigating various shakeholes and old digs on Cow Close Fell. We did have a significant fin

I think I came across that, you have a aluminium man cover lid and a sign just in the entrance warning of fumes yes? I was in my walking gear so I followed your advice anyway.

P.s. If you dig weekends and want an extra hand, I may have a weekend free or two.

 

[Alex]

Glad I looked at this, I was flicking through NC1 for caves that are normally flooded that I can go and visit. I had considered this place, I assume nothing has changed since 2008?

 

[grahams]

Unfortunately there's still no access to Spittle Croft and no possibility of getting in without attracting the attention of the farmer. Snurd's Hole at the other end of the system is currently blocked by cobbles washed in by the river - that's the usual state of the entrance. Digging out the entrance slot, which is about 4ft deep, should give access to the cave. Downstream leads to a sump which might repay attention in these conditions. You might also be able to add to the soggy passage upstream towards Penyghent Gill Main Sink but no guarantees at either site.
The access problems are very frustrating as there's obviously miles of cave just waiting to be explored.

 

[Simon Beck]

I opened up Snurds about 4 years back but didn't descend. Only took about ten minutes and was only blocked with cobbles above some mesh, which was all put back correctly. Got a feeling it's receiving/received some attention since then though.