Starting to Survey: gear options?

[martinm]

PDA options. A number are using Dell Axim X51V.

Got my eye on a few on eBay atm. Can't afford a disto yet, but at least that's one half of the combo. (And I've downloaded PocketTopo plus docs.)

Regards, Mel.

 

[Swallowneck]

Can't fault the Dell Axim x51V. I've got two now, both under ?20.00 on ebay.
Also I got one of these Otterboxes which I think are just the job.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270694233244?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Mine came from the UK and cost ?16.00. I think I was a bit lucky there but I think it's worth a paying a bit more for one as they are perfect for the job. Unfortunately as Kdxn pointed out they don't make them any more.

 

[cavermark]

Point taken. I was working hard to make sure it was free floating and not stuck.  But the viewfinder was kinda discolored and numbers hard to read. I did try one eying it but that wasn't working any better (although fwiw when I shoot I do one eye and people yell at me for that, but I'm accurate at 150yards so.....whatever. I've only been to a range twice and people already  nicknamed me Amy Oakley because I'm a great shot so.....yes one eye works ha!)

Definitely could have been anything from user error to a bad compass (the other person was struggling too and he has surveyed a LOT - like 30 years - and said he has never had this much trouble with a compass before)

Are there any compasses that are easier to read or something? Or are all the same?

Did you try using this particular compass on the surface in daylight (removes the worry about headlight interference). It could be there is an error in the compass - read forward and back between two points like wooden posts - the two readings should be 180degrees apart, check the readings against other compasses.

Not all headlights interfere - sight on a point and move your light in from arms length to touching the instrument - see if the reading changes.

 

[Amy]

Someone else did the calibration test outside. It took him a few tries but figured he was just rusty having not surveyed for about 5 years.

 

[sluka]

Am interested in the idea of the PDA usage though - can anyone recommend a good budget device that works well with Pockettopo and the cave environment/battery usage/etc.?

Dell Axim x50v or x51v (v means VGA). There are 3600 or 3700 mAh accumulators for them on eBay too. Take care to buy it with a craddle, it is important for charging the accus.

The Android program is Qave. It is similar to PocketTopo.

It is not very good idea to use program which allows you to draw final map in a cave. It is very slooooow. Much better is PocketTopo sketch based on splay shots and redraw at home. Without frozen and angry cavedog behind you

PocketTopoo is able to export 3D model of cave based on splay shots to DXF format.

It is up to you, but I'll never change it back to sketchbook, etc.

 

[sluka]

Can't fault the Dell Axim x51V. I've got two now, both under ?20.00 on ebay.
Also I got one of these Otterboxes which I think are just the job.

Are you sure Axim x51v with big battery will fit into that Otterbox Armor 1900?

 

[Swallowneck]

Axim X51V with standard height battery fits into the Velcro cradle leaving room to spare. I do not  have a 3600mAh cell and extended PDA back to compare so the answer to your question is I don't know.
I shall measure the box and report back.
 

 

[sluka]

I shall measure the box and report back.

The thicknes of standard battery is 6,5 mm, 3600 mAh 19,5 mm. The cover could be mimic. So I need additional room 13 mm.

 

[Swallowneck]

No it won't fit which is a shame as the box is great to use with a standard Axim. There is some space though, how thick is a 2200mAh battery, maybe this will fit.
I will check again and see if the back of the box could be modified to take the extra depth.

By keeping the backlight setting low and turning off the blue-tooth when not needed I have not had any power issues with my Axims used over a few hours with 1100mAh batteries. Obviously big jobs are going to need a longer lasting power supply. You could change the battery underground but you would have to be so so careful with your data which at this stage should be on an SD card anyway. 

 

[kdxn]

I have two of the Otterbox 2600.
These allow the Dell Axim X51V to be fitted with the larger battery pack.

 

[sluka]

These allow the Dell Axim X51V to be fitted with the larger battery pack.

Larger - 2200 mAh or large - 3600 mAh?

 

[kdxn]

I have the 2250mAh battery plus some foam infiller to bring the Axim to the front of the Otterbox 2600.

 

[sluka]

I have the 2250mAh battery plus some foam infiller to bring the Axim to the front of the Otterbox 2600.

TNX

 

[Swallowneck]

Kdxn, How thick are the 2250mAh batteries.

Ta.

 

[kdxn]

U6191 battery specifications can be found here:
http://www.batteryexpress.org.uk/pda-battery/BATTERYPRODUCT.php/Replacement-battery-for-Dell/67670/U6191/

Batteries suitable for the Dell Axim X51V can be found at this link:
http://www.batteryexpress.org.uk/pda-battery/BATTERYPRODUCT1.php/Replacement-battery-for-Dell/1037937/AXIM%20X51V/

Alternatively from here where they also include the large battery cover for the PDA.
http://www.topbatteries.co.uk/dell-pda-battery/axim-x51.htm

 

[Swallowneck]

Can't fault the Dell Axim x51V. I've got two now, both under ?20.00 on ebay.
Also I got one of these Otterboxes which I think are just the job.

Are you sure Axim x51v with big battery will fit into that Otterbox Armor 1900?

I have just got a 2200mAh battery and it will fit into the Armor 1900 box, with the larger depth plastic battery cover you need to remove the Velcro cradle but it does fit. If you do not use the cover the cradle can stay, the battery cannot come out because the PDA is snug against the back of the box/Velcro. You do though have to remove the back panel of the box to get the PDA in unlike with the standard 1100mAh battery which slides in through the removable top section. The back of the box has two clips and these are backed up with two M3 cap head screws, it takes 20 secs to remove.

 

[sluka]

Axim x51v with 3600 mAh accu without cover fit exactly to OtterBox 2600.

 

[Amy]

Been diggin. Been surveying. Loving both!
I got a Sunto Tandem from ebay (no bubbles, accurate, great shape, $60!) and a bosch disto that goes up to 285ft. This combined with rite in the rain binder and paper and pencil have prooven most effective. I am using Compass for the line plot and LRUD data, importing to Illustrator for drawing in the walls and features. So far no issues other than typical "learn how to do this" stuff which a missouri caver and hard core surveyor is coaching me on my cartography.

So far have surveyed and mapped a karst feature (which if anyone gets the idea to sig could turn cave, its not far below the contact). Just shy of being a cave at 40 something feet. Also found a virgin pit which at 52ft qualifies it to be a cave. And working on a resurvey/push project it will turn into another over mile long system for Alabama. Have another very promising dig we may end up having to blast open, it will be a fracture in the same fault as some other caves that are in the range of 100ft deep. So yeah. LIG :-D wish i could have started project caving earlier!! So much fun!

Oh, and turns out im a natural at sketching and keeping book so i just do that and let the other people take measurements apparently around here there is more need for good sketchers than tape pullers so i will focus on honing those skills.

 

[wookey]

Re pockettopo on Linux. No you can't run it directly on Linux (I've not managed to get it running via wine), and (despite much badgering of Beat) it's not free software so there's noting we can do about that. But unless you have a linux PDA/tablet you don't really care much. Topparser does a nice job of getting the data into your Linux machine.

You (mmilner) said you had trouble compiling therion. Which Linux are you using? Therion is part of the distro for Debian and Ubuntu (and presumably most derived distros) so no need to compile it. I maintain Survex, Therion, Tunnel, Terraintool, and Caveconverter packages for Debian (and thus derivatives) and will get round to packaging Topparser soon as Andrew seems to be failing to do it

The new Therion 5.3.15 out this week has not yet been uploaded because it need updating to current version of vtk library (6.0)first. It's that sort of thing that makes compiling it yourself potentially painful, and why having distro packages is nice.

On Instruments I've used Silva, Suunto, SAP (Shetland Attack Pony) and distoX. Plus lots of different LDMs (laser distance meters).

One thing no-one mentioned so far is the Silva Type80 which is a lot easier to read than the Aluminium bodied instruments, lighter cheaper, and is somewhat more robust too. We buy them in preference to the Ali-bodied insts now.

I actually really like the SAP as a device, not least because it can calibrate itself without an external machine (I guess the DistoX2 fixes that as well?), but a) no-one is manufacturing them at the moment and b) you need a separate LDM, although I'm hoping to do some work to fix that this year.

 

[prahja]

I agree regarding the Silva 80 - had the same one for ~15 years - far nicer to use and not had any steaming/leaking problems as you get with Suunto..... (haven't found an alternative to the Suunto clino though....)