Tag lines and pull-throughs

[munchkin]

More pull through chat I know! But all of this chat and browsing online has had me wondering whether anyone has done any pull-through trips using a tag line tied into their descent line?

In my head I'm imagining a 50m pitch with a 50-odd metre rope and then something like a 50m x 3mm polypropylene tag line that weighs next to nothing as the "pull" line. I get that for the most part, this isn't a big worry as a single large rope for a pull-through isn't really that heavy, but the spirit of optimisation has me pondering it for a future trip

 

[topcat]

My go to system (but not polypropylene). Carry over from mountaineering...

TC

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Warning, too thin and it tangles really badly and may not double up as a haul line.
Also, note other posts about "Beal Escaper" (MikeM asked about them recently), but rather you than me!

 

[langcliffe]

I know someone that solos Swinsto with a 20 metre rope and a very thin pull-down cord.

 

[Mark Wright]

I think Steve Worthington from SUSS did the Berger solo with about a 70m rope and an awful lot of string to leave large continuous loops on every pitch.

I think Al Warild did something similar down all the 1000m deep caves back in the 80's.

 

[Brains]

Is this not also known as the "Cordlette" technique? I believe it is or was utilised in French/Alpine caving...

 

[zzzzzzed]

 

[Tricky Dicky]

I seem to recall that there was an article on this in Descent many years ago.............

 

[undergroundHP]

I work as an arborist and we use tag lines all the time on the trees. Running them through mallions and krabs, over branches and the rest. If well managed to avoid tangles then they are amazing.
I clove hitch the line on to the rope about 30cm from the end and then a half hitch near the end.

 

[Maisie Syntax]

A pal of mine regularly used this system Using 3mm cord) for solo caving in some of the bigger caves in the Pyrenees (he's still with us BTW). He used the 3mm cord/ball technique as described in Alpine Caving Techniques) (Marbach & Tourte; 2002, section 11.5.2 - pp 216 - 220). It works, but is fiddly in preparation and certainly not for people with issues regarding self doubt.

 

[Pony]

I've used 9mm rope and 5mm tag line for Simpsons/ Swinsto for years no probs. Luckily I use a 30m length, as after a long layoff I got to Slit pot and found it had shrunk somewhat and had to go over the top. Not had any problems with tangling, just don't go hell for leather when pulling through. Also the majority of the pitches in the system can be done with a doubled 30 so the tag line stays in the tackle bag most of the time. I always take a spare set up incase of cock ups and stuff that in a drybag. Not necessary but for the bit of extra bulk, it makes a pleasant change to have a tackle bag that floats.

 

[A_Northerner]

I think Steve Worthington from SUSS did the Berger solo with about a 70m rope and an awful lot of string to leave large continuous loops on every pitch.

SUSS records show he did, and according to Beneath the Mountains he also threatened to use the cordelette technique to solo-pirate the deep caves that the OUCC Ario Expedition were exploring back then as well.

 

[wiggle]

So I do alot of art practice in trees where I have to remotely rig and de rig j use 550 paracord as a pull cord.

 

[AlexR]

Taglines are very useful and clearly widely used (including my myself), some considerations:

I want a tagline to be relatively stiff for the diameter, that further reduces the risk of tangles. The more supple a line, the higher the risk of tangles. Secondly, it needs to be of sufficient diameter to pull without cutting your hand off (exaggerating for effect here, but pulling down 60m or so of rope can require considerable force).
So despite my love of all things Dyneema my personal preference is for 3 or 4mm Kernmantel-style cordage. Ideally with a Dyneema core and tight sheath weave, I won't be splicing it so the tighter the better = stiffer; Nylon or Polyester cover are both fine, Polyester absorbs less water.

I would not under any circumstances use polypropylene cordage in caving. It is truly awful stuff and as far as I'm concerned should remain in ducting for pulling cables, the only application any sane person would use if for.

The cordelette technique is a neat weight saving tactic, but really only recommendable for the seriously psychologically robust expert. I'm not a nervous person and more than happy to tinker with lightweight concepts, but it's a bit too much for me. On my one test attempt I had real trouble getting the rope to feed through the anchor (pulled up in the endless loop), did manage in the end but enough to put me off.

 

[wiggle]

So I do alot of art practice in trees where I have to remotely rig and de rig j use 550 paracord as a pull cord.

Great thing with 550 can double wrap round a micro trax and un snag easily.