The problem Today (rant)

[racingsnake]

I am sick to fuckin death of so called racism claims by anyone and everyone.
As far as I can see people especially the media have forgotton the difference between a straight forward insult and a racist remark.
EG.  Man walks into a bar sees an overweight bloke in the corner and shouts " Oi you yer fat bastard " This is an insult not a racist remark
      Man walks into a bar and sees a dark skinned overweight bloke and shouts "Oi you yer fat bastard " This too is just an insult not a racist remark

The Media and some fuckwitts don't seem to think that you cant insult a person with dark skin without it being racist. Get a fuckin grip


I

 

[Dave]

Any reason for this post-have you had a problem with 'racist' comments? I think the whole racism card is just used as an excuse by most people. People who feel they have to use it really do need to think about the comments made before they make the allegation. By saying this i am not agreeing with racism as i know there are real serious cases out there but people do use the word freely. Not that i watch it but the recent big brother case- YES it was bullying and comments made were about that shilpa (think thats her name) were about her culture but it was stupidity ( i believe the comment was about indions eating with their hands ) not racism,. because a person does not understand a culture and makes comments they are not racist just stupid. I feel that if shilpa was not Indian but say..white then some of the other comments would not have been seen as racist but just bullying, i think this is what the press have eventually come up with?

Overall racism is bad and there is no need for it, but unfortunately people do use the term lightly.

 

[racingsnake]

The reason for the post dave, is that in my local paper today a man of pakistani origin is trying the sue someone for being racist for calling him a fat bastard and some arshole lawyer is trying the case. If the insult was just calling him a fat bastard how can that be racist , but lets not forget that the powers that be in this country are scared of their own shadow. No backbone in the country anymore.

Thought for the day " Do Austrailians get upset at being called Aussies " No of cource not
                            " Do People from Pakistan get upset at being called Pakies " Try it on national tele and see

What a load of crap I dont want to be racist but this country is going to the dogs get a grip Britain

 

[graham]

The reason for the post dave, is that in my local paper today a man of pakistani origin is trying the sue someone for being racist for calling him a fat bastard and some arshole lawyer is trying the case. If the insult was just calling him a fat bastard how can that be racist , but lets not forget that the powers that be in this country are scared of their own shadow. No backbone in the country anymore.

Thought for the day " Do Austrailians get upset at being called Aussies " No of cource not
                            " Do People from Pakistan get upset at being called Pakies " Try it on national tele and see

What a load of crap I dont want to be racist but this country is going to the dogs get a grip Britain

Do jewish people get upset at being called jewish? Doubt it.

Do jewish people get upset at being called yids? Believe so.

Would you be annoyed if I called you a wanker? (Think about it.)

 

[racingsnake]

How could you miss the point so spectacularly.
Yes I would be angry but  calling me a wanker is not racist.

 

[Dave]

I see your point, there is a very big gap between different kinds of insults-

If a person is calld a fat bastart, wanker or whatever it is a personal insult to the person and in no way is it an insult the their race.

If a person is insulted because of their race then it is then racist-but even then i think there are comments that are not insulting-like racingsnake said about Australians being called aussies-an extreeemist could see that as racist but it is a national term and i have met no Australion who finds that offencive. You mentioned the word Pakie, that is now a very commonly known and used word and its soel use is for insulting someone or a race.

But the man who is trying to sue someone for calling him fat is a very sad example of one of these people who thinks the whole world is out to get him and insult him, or he wants money VERY badly.

I hope im making sense here?

 

[racingsnake]

Good points dave its seems you understand my point

 

[graham]

How could you miss the point so spectacularly.
Yes I would be angry but  calling me a wanker is not racist.

I was responding to your "thought for the day", not to the point about whether "fat" was a racist insult or not.

 

[racingsnake]

Yes Graham I understood that but Aussi and Pakie are short for a country of origin as is  calling us brits. None of this is by definition racist

Your example of calling a Jewish person a Yid which I agree is distasteful is not the same their country of origin is neither Jewish or yid

 

[paul]

Yes Graham I understood that but Aussi and Pakie are short for a country of origin as is  calling us brits. None of this is by definition racist

Your example of calling a Jewish person a Yid which I agree is distasteful is not the same their country of origin is neither Jewish or yid

The correct term for somebody of Pakistan origin is "Pakistani".

The word which you are using is almost always used in an insulting manner. It may have become so common to use the word that its original meaning has become lost by the user - but the meaning will never be lost by the person to who it is applied.

It is not the place of the name caller to decide whether a term is "distasteful" - it is the place of the person being referred to by the name.

 

[graham]

Yes Graham I understood that but Aussi and Pakie are short for a country of origin as is  calling us brits. None of this is by definition racist

Your example of calling a Jewish person a Yid which I agree is distasteful is not the same their country of origin is neither Jewish or yid

The correct term for somebody of Pakistan origin is "Pakistani".

The word which you are using is almost always used in an insulting manner. It may have become so common to use the word that its original meaning has become lost by the user - but the meaning will never be lost by the person to who it is applied.

It is not the place of the name caller to decide whether a term is "distasteful" - it is the place of the person being referred to by the name.

 

[graham]

Yes I would be angry but  calling me a wanker is not racist.

But why would you be angry? It is a simple descriptive term which is almost certainly accurate unless you are a very unusual sort of person.

 

[racingsnake]

Yes Graham I understood that but Aussi and Pakie are short for a country of origin as is  calling us brits. None of this is by definition racist

Your example of calling a Jewish person a Yid which I agree is distasteful is not the same their country of origin is neither Jewish or yid

The correct term for somebody of Pakistan origin is "Pakistani".

The word which you are using is almost always used in an insulting manner. It may have become so common to use the word that its original meaning has become lost by the user - but the meaning will never be lost by the person to who it is applied.

It is not the place of the name caller to decide whether a term is "distasteful" - it is the place of the person being referred to by the name.

Paul I am amazed you have missed the point as well. I am not arguing the fact that  it is not insulting. Yes it may be an insult but that does not mean it is automatically racist. For clarity I will restate You can be insulting to anyone without being racist,but it seems to be that some cultures take all insults as being racist and are intollerant to any insult of any kind and label it racist.
To use your own words if you were a member of a tv audience and you shouted out to the presenter " hey you Pakistani " is that racist No Its a little crude and maybe even felt as an insult but it is not fundimentaly racist

 

[paul]

I wasn't disagreeing with your example of "fat bastard" not being rascist. I was pointing out that one of your other examples of supposedly non-rescist names may be.

My point is that it isn't the word you use that matters - it is the meaning behind the word.

In your eaxample, the word "Aussie" os often used to refer to people who are from Australia and nothing more, nothing less.

On the other hand, the other word in your example, "Pakie" (usually spelt "Paki") is usually used not to identify individuals originating from Pakistan (who are rightly called "Pakistani"), but as an insult and as a derogatory term and is applied to individuals without any knowledge of their country of origin - only based on the fact that they appear to be of Asian origin.

You may use the word without any conscious rascist overtones as it may have become debased and "neutralised" by common usage - as the word "n-word" once was in previous decades - but it is still based on an origin which was openly rascist. You may not have realised that - but you do now.

 

[racingsnake]

Yes OK fair point

 

[kay]

Whether something is racist depends on a) the nationality of the target b) the reason for the insult. If, for example, the office is full of overweight people, but the only one who is being called a 'fat bastard' is the one who is of minority race, then it is possible that that is racism - ie that this person is being singled out and insulted because of his race, not because of his weight.

So, yes, 'fat bastard' could be racist, depending on context, and whether it was being used to harass a person because of their race.

Newspaper reports very rarely give the full context, and I doubt whether anyone would get as far as  court or tribunal on a harassment case on the basis of a single comment.

 

[whitelackington]

I must be racist,
I detest politicians,
especially politically correct new labour  :chair:

The Big Brother race row spilled into the world of politics
Big Brother's Shilpa Shetty thanked Tony Blair for his support, while visiting the Houses of Parliament.
The Bollywood actress arrived with her mother to watch prime minister's questions and met Mr Blair afterwards.

She was invited by Labour MP Keith Vaz, who was among those who criticised the TV show after Ms Shetty's treatment by other contestants caused a race row.  :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky: :yucky:

 

[racingsnake]

Whether something is racist depends on a) the nationality of the target b) the reason for the insult. If, for example, the office is full of overweight people, but the only one who is being called a 'fat bastard' is the one who is of minority race, then it is possible that that is racism - ie that this person is being singled out and insulted because of his race, not because of his weight.

So, yes, 'fat bastard' could be racist, depending on context, and whether it was being used to harass a person because of their race.

Newspaper reports very rarely give the full context, and I doubt whether anyone would get as far as  court or tribunal on a harassment case on the basis of a single comment.

This is so full of crap.
How can a racist comment be based on the nationality of the target ?? Are you saying that racism is the preseve on only some nationalities explain ?

 

[graham]

Whether something is racist depends on a) the nationality of the target b) the reason for the insult. If, for example, the office is full of overweight people, but the only one who is being called a 'fat bastard' is the one who is of minority race, then it is possible that that is racism - ie that this person is being singled out and insulted because of his race, not because of his weight.

So, yes, 'fat bastard' could be racist, depending on context, and whether it was being used to harass a person because of their race.

Newspaper reports very rarely give the full context, and I doubt whether anyone would get as far as  court or tribunal on a harassment case on the basis of a single comment.

This is so full of crap.
How can a racist comment be based on the nationality of the target ?? Are you saying that racism is the preseve on only some nationalities explain ?

Personally I thought that:

If, for example, the office is full of overweight people, but the only one who is being called a 'fat bastard' is the one who is of minority race, then it is possible that that is racism - ie that this person is being singled out and insulted because of his race, not because of his weight.

was a perfectly clear explanation. 

 

[Cave Monkey]

Whether something is racist depends on a) the nationality of the target b) the reason for the insult. If, for example, the office is full of overweight people, but the only one who is being called a 'fat bastard' is the one who is of minority race, then it is possible that that is racism - ie that this person is being singled out and insulted because of his race, not because of his weight.

So, yes, 'fat bastard' could be racist, depending on context, and whether it was being used to harass a person because of their race.

Newspaper reports very rarely give the full context, and I doubt whether anyone would get as far as  court or tribunal on a harassment case on the basis of a single comment.

This is so full of crap.
How can a racist comment be based on the nationality of the target ?? Are you saying that racism is the preseve on only some nationalities explain ?

Agree,

A racist comment can only be a racist comment if the said comment is directly aimed at a person of creed departed from the speaker and said comment includes a negative statement directly associated at targeted individuals race.

If the brown guy is the only one called "fat bastard" because he is brown this is bullying.

If the brown guy is called "fat brown bastard" again this is not racists, just a statement of truth, as race has not been used, they will however try and use the race card as colour has been mentioned.

Colour is not race.

If the brown guy is called "fat Paki bastard" then he has received a racist comment.

Unfortunately we now live in a compensation society funded and aided by the CPS.