The state of University clubs?

[graham]

Never understood why more university clubs don't/didn't adopt the LUUSS/ULSA or CUCC/EXCSS model. ULSA was formed in 1965 precisely to maintain experienced members input to LUUSS and the model is still working 50 years later, albeit LUUSS is now LUUCAS (or something like this). By the way, I know LUSS/LUST didn't succeed in staying the course but there is always an exception to the rule.

Can anyone make any sense of this? the only recognisable reference I can see is ULSA. (Uni. Leeds Spelio--Ass.-)

It's the model whereby the graduate members of a uni club (Leeds University Union Speleo Soc.) form a wider membership club (University of Leeds Speleo Assoc.). As nearlywhite notes, there are several way of achieving the same end.

Which will frequently depend on the university's and the Student Union's policies on funding and insurance etc. These can be quite strict regarding provision to non-university members, or much more relaxed (eg cambridge).

It can be even more subtle than that, it's actually a fairly complex interplay in regard to the provision of funding, experience, enthusiasm and other factors. Providing that you have permanent staff who are willing to engage, a wider membership gives you the opportunity to build stronger relationships with both Union and University. This may not solve all problems, but it certainly helps.

 

[bograt]

Ahh, I get it now the daughters just finished at Aberystwyth uni., they have a similar set up, key members are not at college although I understand the main officers still have to be students.

Sure someone from there will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[shortscotsman]

Unfortunately,  "tolerance" of ex-student members can depend upon who is running the student union.  Swansea Uni went through a period where even members
of staff were no longer allowed to be members of the sports clubs.  I was in sub-aqua at this time and was only allowed to remain involved because I had official instructor qualifications.  (the side benefit was that it was free...) Once the link is broken with ex-members it can be very hard to restart.   


I guess one route to reform caving clubs  would be to try to get the climbing clubs to look at caving
with possible spin-off later.  People in SWCC have tried with Swansea Uni this but nothing has developed yet.

 

[bograt]

This seems to be counter-productive, I get the impression that clubs like SUSS and Aber are kept together by ex students, continuity is important in caving, though not necessarily by a SU president who can only last a max of 3 or 4 years.

Maybe CHECC has something to add on this?

 

[Filter]

CHECC has been trying for a few years now (mostly thanks to Hellie) to get student clubs to make connections with the local "adult" groups. For example, until a year ago GSG and GUPA didn't (really) know the other existed, but now we've been on a few joint trips and there are a lot more potential trip leaders (since GUPA currently doesn't have any student trip-leaders).

On the subject of ex-students - Glasgow Uni only lets non-students (officially) join a club when they are the coaches, which is another reason why I've been pushing for GSG/GUPA relations (a lot of ex-guppies had no club and still wanted to cave with folk).

 

[Pegasus]

Coincidentally, the CHECC club board on UKC was archived today as it wasn't being used 

However....

UKC are only too happy to support any club, CHECC, student or otherwise - so if you want to reach out to the 100's of cavers who read UKC every day, please do get in touch 

 

[bograt]

This has always been a problem with college caving, back in the early 70's we were classed as a sport, so came under the jurisdiction of the 'Athletics Union', (I even got my 'college colours for caving')---??,.

This business about only coaches/trainers being allowed to join is truly cr*p, I suspect that some re-writing of constitutions is required!.

 

[psychocrawler]

York seem to have a good set up with continuity between YUCPC and York Caving Club.

 

[droid]

YUCPC from the very start had an excellent relationship with local non-university cavers. Glad to see the tradition is being carried on.

 

[alastairgott]

York (yucpc) also has good connections with the bradford, the northern pennine club, SWCC and the TSG. having 1 or 2 members in each of them who have left the university in the last 5 years.

 

[nearlywhite]

I guess one route to reform caving clubs  would be to try to get the climbing clubs to look at caving
with possible spin-off later.  People in SWCC have tried with Swansea Uni this but nothing has developed yet.

It's how a lot of clubs originally started, it's a good idea. Would be nice to see where the pitfalls were. Pardon the pun.

 

[CatM]

YUCPC from the very start had an excellent relationship with local non-university cavers. Glad to see the tradition is being carried on.

YUCPC are lucky in that the uni imposes no restrictions on alumni and staff (or even people completely unassociated with the uni) being able to join the club, so there are plenty of us older members that stick around to pass on experience, and that really helped when we had recently had a couple of years on the trot with low intake (or rather, plenty of people signing up, but not many staying for various reasons). We've had a great intake of new enthusiastic people this year, several of whom have even joined YCC too and go on their weekly digging sessions; the future is still looking bright

 

[Filter]

This has always been a problem with college caving, back in the early 70's we were classed as a sport, so came under the jurisdiction of the 'Athletics Union', (I even got my 'college colours for caving')---??,.

This business about only coaches/trainers being allowed to join is truly cr*p, I suspect that some re-writing of constitutions is required!.

Bograt, this is a point that's been brought up at GUPA before (e.g. "Why don't we drop the Sport Association and just join the SRC (Student Rep Council)?") It's a good question on the surface, with the SRC allowing up to 30% of the membership be non-students, but GUSA gives  us a fair amount of money to buy kit and the like, something which the SRC doesn't do. We are barely scraping by as it is (most of our non-SRT kit is 5-10 years old and in dire need of replacing) we're kinda stuck being a "Sport." However, we decided that this year we're going to try and attract non-"sporty" people to the club by actively advertising outside of the Sports Fair. And yes, I know that caving is a challenging activity, but not everyone who caves falls into the category of being a sporty person, hence the quotation marks.

 

[CatM]

However, we decided that this year we're going to try and attract non-"sporty" people to the club by actively advertising outside of the Sports Fair. And yes, I know that caving is a challenging activity, but not everyone who caves falls into the category of being a sporty person, hence the quotation marks.

Sounds a good plan to me. At freshers' fair, I tend to actively target the "non-sporty" looking people. By that, without meaning to sound judgemental, I mean I will go and talk to people walking past who look like they're probably active, but who don't look like footballers/rugby players/etc (who are likely to be spending their time playing those sports and not be interested in caving). Yes obviously you can't always tell but sometimes you get an impression. And yes some footballers/rugby players might enjoy caving, but when you have hundreds of potential "customers" going past you have to be a bit picky.

Incidentally, we had a discussion on our forum a while back about different ways to attract (and hopefully keep) new student members; I'd be happy to pass the information along if it would help?

 

[meanderthal]

This has always been a problem with college caving, back in the early 70's we were classed as a sport, so came under the jurisdiction of the 'Athletics Union', (I even got my 'college colours for caving')---??,.

This business about only coaches/trainers being allowed to join is truly cr*p, I suspect that some re-writing of constitutions is required!.

Bograt, this is a point that's been brought up at GUPA before (e.g. "Why don't we drop the Sport Association and just join the SRC (Student Rep Council)?") It's a good question on the surface, with the SRC allowing up to 30% of the membership be non-students, but GUSA gives  us a fair amount of money to buy kit and the like, something which the SRC doesn't do. We are barely scraping by as it is (most of our non-SRT kit is 5-10 years old and in dire need of replacing) we're kinda stuck being a "Sport." However, we decided that this year we're going to try and attract non-"sporty" people to the club by actively advertising outside of the Sports Fair. And yes, I know that caving is a challenging activity, but not everyone who caves falls into the category of being a sporty person, hence the quotation marks.

Cardiff Uni got around this problem by creating a secondary club with the union, Cardiff Speleology Society - officially interested in the science of caves but unofficially, just cavers... This way they are able to advertise at both the Athletics Fayre and the Societies Fayre!

http://www.cardiffstudents.com/activities/society/speleological/

 

[droid]

YUCPC from the very start had an excellent relationship with local non-university cavers. Glad to see the tradition is being carried on.

YUCPC are lucky in that the uni imposes no restrictions on alumni and staff (or even people completely unassociated with the uni) being able to join the club, so there are plenty of us older members that stick around to pass on experience, and that really helped when we had recently had a couple of years on the trot with low intake (or rather, plenty of people signing up, but not many staying for various reasons). We've had a great intake of new enthusiastic people this year, several of whom have even joined YCC too and go on their weekly digging sessions; the future is still looking bright

Which is the way it worked at the very beginning, where a couple of the early lights of the YUCPC were in a local caving group when YUCPC was started. Members of that caving group (including yours truly) were then invited on YUCPC trips. Including the early Picos expeditions. Further supplemented by members of a long established Mendip club.....

 

[nearlywhite]

Bograt, this is a point that's been brought up at GUPA before (e.g. "Why don't we drop the Sport Association and just join the SRC (Student Rep Council)?") It's a good question on the surface, with the SRC allowing up to 30% of the membership be non-students, but GUSA gives  us a fair amount of money to buy kit and the like, something which the SRC doesn't do. We are barely scraping by as it is (most of our non-SRT kit is 5-10 years old and in dire need of replacing) we're kinda stuck being a "Sport." However, we decided that this year we're going to try and attract non-"sporty" people to the club by actively advertising outside of the Sports Fair. And yes, I know that caving is a challenging activity, but not everyone who caves falls into the category of being a sporty person, hence the quotation marks.

Cardiff Uni got around this problem by creating a secondary club with the union, Cardiff Speleology Society - officially interested in the science of caves but unofficially, just cavers... This way they are able to advertise at both the Athletics Fayre and the Societies Fayre!

http://www.cardiffstudents.com/activities/society/speleological/

I would strongly urge you to do the 'Cardiff Fix' and get 2 streams of support for the club. The reality of the situation is that most caving clubs straddle both the traditional definitions of sports clubs and societies, cavers tend to go with the path of least bureaucratic resistance and actually if you spend a little bit of time playing their game they usually come on side. You just have to be very friendly or very pushy. Keep reminding them etc.

 

[bograt]

Must admit, back then, any financial allocation to sport was administered by the AU on behalf of the SU, there was no other route, that's why we put up with it.
Amount allocated depended upon the signed up membership, this was why there was such a drive on freshers night to get signatures.

Don't know if this is still the case? (I am thinking 40 years ago )

 

[nearlywhite]

Must admit, back then, any financial allocation to sport was administered by the AU on behalf of the SU, there was no other route, that's why we put up with it.
Amount allocated depended upon the signed up membership, this was why there was such a drive on freshers night to get signatures.

Don't know if this is still the case? (I am thinking 40 years ago )

This is still largely the case.

A few caving clubs don't get any annual handout any more, they instead rely on claims from a 'safety' budget which are dished out based on memberships

 

[The Old Ruminator]

I did a lot of caving with Portsmouth Polytechnic Club back in the early 70's. What they lacked in funding they made up in youthful enthusiasm. Of course there was little in the way of caving gear to buy in any case. Ex garage oily overalls, ex NCB cells and very few wet suits. ( You made your own ). We had trips to Derbyshire , Yorkshire and the Mendips doing a few of the classic caves on a hope and a prayer. A few would come down to Mendip on a motor bike or a beat up old car. ( Pete Rose's half a gallon of petrol at a time. Got told to f+++ off by one garage.) Swildons and Stoke sumps in thick woolly jumpers. A pint down the pub for those with hypothermia. A fatter member we left at any inconvenient squeeze to collect on the way back. Its all so different now. More professional yes but that spirit of adventure is slowly dying. But then I am a sad old git brought up in a cottage with a bucket bog at the bottom of the garden and a tin bath in the front room. Well I am still caving most weeks after 50 years. I wonder how many more of that generation are ?