The Tiger at the bar
- Thread starter Badlad
- Start date
Mike Hopley
New member
Some act as though it is, and twist an ugly character trait into a virtue. Or if that's not plain enough: being a stalwart forum warrior is just another way to be an arsehole.
While we're on the subject of trolls, I like this presentation, which defines a troll as someone who seeks conflict. For that reason I disagree with Peter in this case -- although I appreciate the cordiality with which he expresses himself, which is the mark of a non-troll.
Unfortunately some people genuinely do thrive on conflict, gaining energy from it rather than finding it stressful. This can have the effect of suppressing the better part of discussion, because the rest of us don't actually enjoy that and quit.
And that's blatantly the case here -- in this thread, and frequently elsewhere on UKcaving. Which is a pity.
Peter Burgess
New member
Droid is not a troll. Period. Believe me, when you meet a troll, you will know about it.
droid
Active member
Thank you Peter.
My grief with a lot of the 'debates' on here is twofold:
1) Those that confuse their opinions with fact, and
2) Ad hominem argument
Also:
Those that think the more they repeat their opinion the truer it gets.
'My grief with a lot of the 'debates' on here is threefold..... :
Sorry if this is a thread derail, but if Mr Hopley thinks I'm a troll, as Peter said above, it just means he's never met one.
My grief with a lot of the 'debates' on here is twofold:
1) Those that confuse their opinions with fact, and
2) Ad hominem argument
Also:
Those that think the more they repeat their opinion the truer it gets.
'My grief with a lot of the 'debates' on here is threefold..... :
Sorry if this is a thread derail, but if Mr Hopley thinks I'm a troll, as Peter said above, it just means he's never met one.
Mike Hopley
New member
Oh, you're not that bad. You wouldn't make my short-list. You're not "scary troll", as Nicole would put it. I would call you "hobby horse troll" (your hobby horse has three legs, as you described above. It's a wobbly but impressively tall horse, so you can look down on everyone else).
But you are pretty unpleasant a lot of the time, and either don't realise it or don't care. It's not the only reason I rarely post on UKcaving, but you and a few others do make a pretty poisonous atmosphere. It's like winning an argument by farting so noxiously that everyone else leaves the room.
Anyway, I need to follow some advice from Nicole, because I'm not a person who actually enjoys this. Gl Hf K thx bai!
Beardy
Member
I am saddened with how this thread has degenerated in to some pointless personal bickering - none of the last half a dozen posts relate to the original purpose of this thread -mods is it possible to clean up the thread just leaving the relevant stuff?
Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
droid
Active member
At last, someone that speaks their mind, Mike. Thank you for that.
The 'hobby horse' as you describe it, is a means of avoiding the unpleasantness you abhor so much.
As for not realising I'm unpleasant, or not caring: it's a bit of both. I don't mean to be overly unpleasant, but I'm not going to lose too much sleep over the opinions of someone I've never met, and therefore doesn't know me.
And in deference to Beardy's wishes, I'll leave it there.
Except to say, Mike: read what I write, not what you think I write.
The 'hobby horse' as you describe it, is a means of avoiding the unpleasantness you abhor so much.
As for not realising I'm unpleasant, or not caring: it's a bit of both. I don't mean to be overly unpleasant, but I'm not going to lose too much sleep over the opinions of someone I've never met, and therefore doesn't know me.
And in deference to Beardy's wishes, I'll leave it there.
Except to say, Mike: read what I write, not what you think I write.
Peter Burgess
New member
It may not be pointless, just in the wrong place. The positivity posts were going in the right direction in pointing out the kind of thing we can do without on this site.
Bottlebank
New member
As there doesn't seem to be a section called "Utter Bollocks" perhaps this whole topic should be moved to "Idle Chat".
The opening post has no real relevance to UK caving other than that a small number of cavers have sought her opinion and the comments following Badlad's instruction not to discuss CRoW here have little to do with UK Caving either.
In the interests of positivity perhaps Badlad could act on his own advice and move my earlier comment and Bob's informative reply into a new topic under UK Caving as these seem to be pretty much the only comments here that are relevant to this forum section and this hopefully the rest of this nonsense will be confined to history?
The opening post has no real relevance to UK caving other than that a small number of cavers have sought her opinion and the comments following Badlad's instruction not to discuss CRoW here have little to do with UK Caving either.
In the interests of positivity perhaps Badlad could act on his own advice and move my earlier comment and Bob's informative reply into a new topic under UK Caving as these seem to be pretty much the only comments here that are relevant to this forum section and this hopefully the rest of this nonsense will be confined to history?
Mike Hopley
New member
Back on topic:
In the article, Dinah is described as the "the finest advocate of her generation" by a human rights organisation.
That's quite an accolade. Well done her.
In the article, Dinah is described as the "the finest advocate of her generation" by a human rights organisation.
That's quite an accolade. Well done her.
[admin]I think the way this thread has degenerated typifies what puts people off UKcaving. I want this site to be the place for news, information, respectful discussion and help for those who ask for it - for all cavers. The article on Dinah Rose had already been sent to me by caving friends so I put it on here for general interest. Other users of this forum also seem to have found it of interest. But.. the second post on this topic says
If you can't see what is wrong with this thread I suggest you read it from the top down and then watch the film linked to by Mike Hopley above (thanks). If you still can't see what is wrong with it, then you may be part of the problem. Please try harder and be more considerate to other forum users who tell us over and over again that they do not want to see trolling, bullying, bickering, baiting or other wise derailing of perfectly legitimate topics.
I'd like to think that all subjects can be discussed on this forum - but with respect for others in this caving community. Being deliberately antagonistic and inflammatory may be ok if you are in the company of like minded warriors, either on the internet or down the pub, but it is no longer acceptable on this forum. Everyone must remember that just because you are behind a keyboard you are still talking to real people. Please treat people on here as if you were talking to them face to face.
[/admin]
and yet that person went on to post another seven times, which only seemed to lead to accusations of 'trolling' and the off topic breakdown of the thread.
If you can't see what is wrong with this thread I suggest you read it from the top down and then watch the film linked to by Mike Hopley above (thanks). If you still can't see what is wrong with it, then you may be part of the problem. Please try harder and be more considerate to other forum users who tell us over and over again that they do not want to see trolling, bullying, bickering, baiting or other wise derailing of perfectly legitimate topics.
I'd like to think that all subjects can be discussed on this forum - but with respect for others in this caving community. Being deliberately antagonistic and inflammatory may be ok if you are in the company of like minded warriors, either on the internet or down the pub, but it is no longer acceptable on this forum. Everyone must remember that just because you are behind a keyboard you are still talking to real people. Please treat people on here as if you were talking to them face to face.
[/admin]
menacer
Active member
Thank you for the link Badlad
I think its great to see UKCaving was represented by someone so expertly capable and more importantly professionally neutral
Im also wondering if from now on, we can all look forward to receiving a personal appraisal after every post as to whether Droid is interested in what we say or not or whether we should just all save our breathe/fingers/cyberspace because google has everything ,anyone ever needed to know?
:ras:
I think its great to see UKCaving was represented by someone so expertly capable and more importantly professionally neutral
Im also wondering if from now on, we can all look forward to receiving a personal appraisal after every post as to whether Droid is interested in what we say or not or whether we should just all save our breathe/fingers/cyberspace because google has everything ,anyone ever needed to know?
:ras:
ZombieCake
Well-known member
A 'Cancel' button on the forum submission text box would be useful to allow a bail out of pub ridden angst.
Cookie
New member
menacer said:
Another quote from the article: ?She doesn?t hold back. She is extremely friendly outside court but once in the boxing ring, it?s every man or woman for themselves. It doesn?t matter how long you have known her. She represents the interest of her clients.?
Whilst I believe she is very capable I can't see that she is "professionally neutral" when her very job is to "represent the interests of her clients".
tony from suffolk
Well-known member
One of my patients for many years was a QC of no small repute (sadly no longer with us). I became friendly with him and on a couple of occasions he very kindly gave me his opinion on some legal issues. In doing so he was completely neutral and in the circumstances I wasn't his client.
Roger W
Well-known member
If I'm paying a lawyer to represent me in a case, I would expect him or her to "represent the interests of her client" as somebody said, and pull out all the stops to get a verdict in my favour.
But if I'm paying a lawyer to give me legal advice on a particular issue, I expect him or her to give me good impartial advice, not just tell me what I want to hear because I'm paying the bill.
But if I'm paying a lawyer to give me legal advice on a particular issue, I expect him or her to give me good impartial advice, not just tell me what I want to hear because I'm paying the bill.
