Valley Entrance, Derbyshire extension?

[simonsays]

If you take the passage that continues on past the bottom of the climb up into toyland you find yourself in a rather unpleasant low crawl (hands and knees/flat out) which I am assuming is the Derbyshire extension?

Follow this for long enough and you eventually find yourself at a very tight pitch head with an ancient in-situ ladder.

I was wondering what lay at the bottom of the ladder? A combination of factors stopped me from progressing any further
The ladder/hanger really did look buggered and I couldn't quite work out how to get onto it safely or indeed how much of a drop there was!

Any info gratefully received.

 

[Katie]

Sorry can't help but saw the 'subject' and thought the 3 counties system had been extended to 4!

 

[Pitlamp]

Nice one Katie!

Simonsays - in case it helps, it's all in Descents 147 and 148.

 

[bograt]

Sorry can't help but saw the 'subject' and thought the 3 counties system had been extended to 4!

Yup, the Yorkshire lads have really got the bit between their teeth!

 

[Badlad]

My guess is that you were in the Compost Series or Carrot passage area (which I've never fully investigated myself).  Not sure where you find a pitch down in that area.  The Derbyshire extensions, or the 'Kellaway' part of it, is easy crawling.  It ends with a pitch up to further extensions which ended in a number of digs last time I was there. 

 

[dunc]

My guess is that you were in the Compost Series or Carrot passage area (which I've never fully investigated myself).  Not sure where you find a pitch down in that area.  The Derbyshire extensions, or the 'Kellaway' part of it, is easy crawling.  It ends with a pitch up to further extensions which ended in a number of digs last time I was there.

Only ever been along the Kellaway myself, I'd agree with Badlad, that's easy crawling, relatively pleasant from what I recall.

Never sampled the delights of Carrot/Compost etc, Simonsays confirms what  I thought; low and unpleasant!

Cavemaps has a LUSS survey of Compost Series - any of that look familiar?

 

[peterk]

A bit puzzled about your location. I can't remember any pitch heads in the Carrot Passage area and I would think any pitch would be no more than 10-15m before it would reach water. Just checked the "latest" survey and that shows nothing.

If you were at the large rift in the Derbyshire series then there has been or still is downward digging activity. The true passage size of the Derbyshire series from the Tri Junction passage is unknown - no solid floor ever found.  Did you climb this rift and struggle on for another 30 mins?

 

[Pitlamp]

I'm a bit confused too. If you got to a pitch head without doing climbs up first - you weren't in that wet passage which goes straight on from Tri Junction were you? That ends at a rift down to a tiny sump at saturation level.

Have you looked at a reasonable scale survey? That'd probably make things clear.

 

[Bottlebank]

Sounds as though you've missed the Derbyshire extension.

After leaving Calcite Inlet in the Milky Way you go through a short hands and knees crawl into a chamber (we called it the Brew Chamber but not sure if this got as far as the survey) where you head right and then left to the start of the Derbyshire Extensions.

Just before you turn left was the old way into the passage to Carrot passage, a hole in the floor before a corner on your left, this got blocked when we applied water power to the dig and may or may not be open. As you go around the corner we dug a way on the left back into the Carrot passage route, and this is still the way in so far as I know, stay right at this point for the DCC bit. Following the left route passage leads to Tri Junction, and straight on to a tight rift and sump, left at Tri junction leads to Compost Series and Carrot. This sounds like where you got to.

From memory if you turn right at Tri Junction we tested this passage to the rift in the DCC extensions.

 

[simonsays]

Thanks for the replies folks.  I don't have access to a decent large scale survey but from the information you've given me I'm going to conclude that we were indeed in carrot/compost.

In all honesty its not an area I plan to visit again soon. Being a 'larger' gentleman, some of the crawl was a decidedly snug fit me.  Exhale/wriggle an inch or two forwards. Shallow breath and wriggle a couple of inches more, was the order of the day. It was nice to get back on the main drag and have a stomp around the matter cave

 

[Cave Mapper]

This is intriguing. On the surveys that I have there are no down pitches in the Carrot Passage series except for the 10m pitch in the Compost Series, but to get to that you need to go up a 10m pitch first. Therefore I think it is highly unlikely you were in the Compost Series. Is there another down pitch somewhere in the Carrot Passage Series that isn't on any of the published surveys?

More likely you were in the Derbyshire Extensions, they are the obvious main route on beyond Milky Way (to get to Carrot Passage you have to take a small, obscure side passage). The main crawl in Derbyshire Extensions (The Kellaway) is long and often flat-out - easy if your are small and fit like Dunc, but maybe tough going for a 'larger gentleman'? At the end of the crawl is a pitch up with an in-situ rope. I'm sure you would have remembered it, it needs prussik gear, although I suppose it could be free-climbed if you were brave enough. At the top is a narrow, winding, wet crawl that leads to a chamber. There is a very tight, steeply descending rift here, I don't remember a ladder though. But you can't have been there unless you did climb up the rope.

Here's another theory, a long shot maybe, but plausible. Below the rope climb is a relatively new dig. When I saw it a few months ago, it went down about five feet then horizontally not very far. Maybe the diggers have had a breakthrough and found a down pitch, which they are keeping secret. Oops. Secrets don't work in the Internet age.

Would the diggers care to step forward?

Maybe the new pitch drops into a passage that connects through to the Three Counties System. It's in the right place, and less than a kilometre to go

 

[Pitlamp]

H'm - "an ancient in situ ladder" in a new breakthrough, as referred to by the OP?
It still doesn't completely add up.

Did you drop any stones down the pitch? If so did they land in deep water or on dry land?

 

[Bottlebank]

The pitch down is at the end of the low passage straight on at tri junction, should have made this clear in my earlier post.

 

[Cave Mapper]

Ah, this now makes sense, thanks Bottlebank.

The pitch is actually mentioned in Northern Sump Index 1995:

"A sump in the central passage straight ahead at Tri-junction was originally passed as a duck to a choked canal. It was later drained to give access to 30m of low passage that leads to an 11m deep rift pitch [..]. The bottom of the pitch ends at a small undived sump .."

Is this sump still undived Pitlamp?

 

[Pitlamp]

Ah - I win this latest incarnation of the "Wezzit" eh? (See my post of 6th August above.)

To my knowledge it's not been dived. The problem is it's likely to be at saturation level, so likely destination is the main phreas between KMC and the resurgence. So maybe potential isn't as great as other sites.

I do know that at least two divers have been to look at it but I don't think anyone has been in the water. If anyone knows different please let me know as we're working very hard on the next Northern Sump Index at the moment.

 

[simonsays]

H'm - "an ancient in situ ladder" in a new breakthrough, as referred to by the OP?
It still doesn't completely add up.

Did you drop any stones down the pitch? If so did they land in deep water or on dry land?

Sorry, just to clarify..... It was an election ladder.  Just left in situ.  The top of the pitch was really tight and I had wound up approaching it on my back so I couldn't see down the shaft. It could have been ten feet, could have been a hundred for all I know. .. As it was I had to crawl backwards in a face up position for about 15 feet before I could even turn over let alone turn round.  It really was a ridiculous position for a big lad to be in!

It was caving for racing snakes not pie-munchers.