Vertigo

[rm128]

Moderator comment: Posts moved from "What's your first trip of 2025?" thread in Caving Chat section.

Not a lot yet as I Aparently have come down with vertigo following a cold/infection! I don’t recommend it, although the neighbours enjoyed my comedy tumble into a hedge whilst walking/wobbling to the doctors this morning!

I mysteriously came down with vertigo at the bottom of Maskhill Mine. I'd rigged all the way down, feeling more off colour as I went. At the bottom I fell over and couldn't get up. It was a "fun" trip out of Oxlow. I tried various "manoeuvres" recommended by experts, but none had any effect in my case. It eventually cleared on a flight to Austria. I was comically bouncing off walls through MCR airport and staggering down the aisle on boarding. When I stood up to disembark I was completely cured. I guess the pressure changes did the trick. Might be worth you taking a medicinal holiday

 

[JAA]

I mysteriously came down with vertigo at the bottom of Maskhill Mine. I'd rigged all the way down, feeling more off colour as I went. At the bottom I fell over and couldn't get up. It was a "fun" trip out of Oxlow. I tried various "manoeuvres" recommended by experts, but none had any effect in my case. It eventually cleared on a flight to Austria. I was comically bouncing off walls through MCR airport and staggering down the aisle on boarding. When I stood up to disembark I was completely cured. I guess the pressure changes did the trick. Might be worth you taking a medicinal holiday

That’s a good idea!! A nice long haul flight somewhere hot and sunny to be extra sure it’s effective! The doctors have me on some pills sort it, but the comic effect of crashing into walls is excellent! I’m off work as I fear sliding down a pole could be a little hazardous!

 

[ChrisB]

I tried various "manoeuvres" recommended by experts

As I understand it there are two main causes of vertigo, ear infection (which needs medication) and Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV) which may respond to manoeuvres. BPPV is caused by a small solid particle (maybe from earwax) that settles in the wrong part of your ear, and the manoeuvres mean moving your head similar to what you have to do with those puzzles where you have to get a little silver ball through a maze, (but in this case blindfolded). Maybe pressure changes can distort the ear so that it falls out.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

As I understand it there are two main causes of vertigo, ear infection (which needs medication) and Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV) which may respond to manoeuvres. BPPV is caused by a small solid particle (maybe from earwax) that settles in the wrong part of your ear, and the manoeuvres mean moving your head similar to what you have to do with those puzzles where you have to get a little silver ball through a maze, (but in this case blindfolded). Maybe pressure changes can distort the ear so that it falls out.

Would examination with (otoscope or whatnot) diagnose that situation with BPPV? or do you mean an object on the "wrong" side of the eardrum

 

[rm128]

Would examination with (otoscope or whatnot) diagnose that situation with BPPV? or do you mean an object on the "wrong" side of the eardrum

It was BPPV in my case and, as I recall, my doctor diagnosed it simply by asking a few questions and watching me bouncing off a few things. I don't remember any particularly in-depth physical examination.

 

[ChrisB]

Would examination with (otoscope or whatnot) diagnose that situation with BPPV?

No, they are not accessible. What I wrote above was from memory, so I've looked it up. The particles are called otoliths, and they are calcium carbonate crystals that sit on a gel in the vestibule of the inner ear and detect linear acceleration. BPPV occurs when they become detached and move into the fluid filled semicircular canals, further into the ear, which detect rotational movement and orientation. The hairs in the semicircular canals are tuned to detect movement in the fluid, so when a lump of crystal hits them they over-respond. The manoeuvre to get them back where they should be is called the Epley Manoeuvre.

 

[rm128]

Maybe pressure changes can distort the ear so that it falls out.

I'm not sure that anything actually needs to fall out, e.g a lump of earwax. I think it's more to do with tiny crystals forming, which then need to dissolve. Pressure changes due to flying and the various manoeuvres both facilitate this.

Edit: sorry Chris, our replies must have passed in the ether.

 

[Pitlamp]

Eleventy one pints can apparently cause it as well, not that I'd know of course.

 

[rm128]

Eleventy one pints can apparently cause it as well, not that I'd know of course.

Vertigo is much cheaper... unless you factor in the cost of a medicinal flight

 

[JAA]

The Dr had a Quick Look with an otoscope and diagnosed that I have very fluffy ears but not much else!
Thankfully the drugs seem to have kicked in very quickly, it’s something called Betahistine

 

[rm128]

The Dr had a Quick Look with an otoscope and diagnosed that I have very fluffy ears but not much else!

In the sense that (s)he could see clear out through the other ear?

 

[JAA]

In the sense that (s)he could see clear out through the other ear?

Straight through!

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

12 - 15 years ago I started to get episodes of vertigo that would last several weeks and recur perhaps once a year. Caving became problematic.
In 2019 I went to the doctor for a flu jab and was told that, as it was my first visit for about 8 years, I ought to have a routine blood test.
The results showed very high calcium levels and undetectably low levels of vitamine D.
Removal of a parathyroid gland in 2020 sorted the calcium and I have since been taking daily D3 tablets, 25 micrograms.
It may have been either, both or neither of these things that have stopped the vertigo (fingers crossed!) but Google just told me that low vitamine D is a risk factor for recurrent vertigo and a couple of doctors said that most people in this country would benefit from vitamine D supplements.

 

[pwhole]

I would argue that Vit D supplements are probably as important as food itself in Britain, especially in winter. It's pretty much fundamental.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

I have had BPPV issues over the years. Its horrible. If done correctly the Epley can flush out the otoliths which I think form on top of those little hair type uprights. If not done correctly it can make you vomit. Not all doctors can practise it correctly. Medication can help with the nausia but wont cure the problem. Normally in a week or so the otoliths sort themselves out. You are not supposed to drive with some of the medication prescribed.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

It puzzles me that vit D isn't required to be added/fortified to milk and dairy products (which without fortification are very poor sources of vit D) in the UK, unlike many other countries.

Vit D3 supplements seem to fall into 2 categories. Ones with fancy brand names and glossy packaging, worst case capsules in blister packs and cost a lot like £5-£10 for 30. Or... asking at a pharmacy and getting 60 for (at 1000iu) £1.29 or less, which is about 2p each (2p a day), but the D3 is the same stuff for the fancy and cheap supplements.

If you are buying an expensive one, my [unqualified] recommendation is stop!!! For the money for a fancy blister pack for 30 days you could have 12 months worth by asking at the pharmacy counter.

Anyway, back to vertigo...

 

[Pitlamp]

Good old fashioned cod liver oil capsules?

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

Unless you're vegetarian or vegan, obv.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Good old fashioned cod liver oil capsules?

Old fashioned? You'd be given a spoon of it (yuk!)

 

[shotlighter]

Not quite sure where this fits into the normal vertigo thing.
I had it about 15 years ago, feeling dizzy when walking down corridors or aisles in supermarkets. Sometimes I would just fall over without warning. Once & I was standing talking to a customer in their canteen, when I suddenly & without warning I fell over, straight into one of those metal tube and glass Italian style table and chairs sets, sending them flying!
The doc tried me with the usual tablets to no avail, so referred me to an audiologist. She reckoned that I'd lost the connection between what my eyes were telling my brain and what my inner ear was telling it about position & movement.
She gave me exercises to, do that involved looking at a fixed point. Then moving my head and body from side to side, while concentrating on the fixed point. After about 6 months of daily exercises that gradually increased the movement, I got better.
I still get it a bit in supermarkets though & more so in caves. Then of course, you're following a moving point of light, through a darkish environment, with no regular surfaces as reference.