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Vesper or Vespers?

rm128

Active member
This is one for all you pedants. You know who you are! While stuck at home with Covid at the moment, I find myself wondering abbout the correct name for this great little East Kingsdale Pot. I’ve always known it as Vesper, presumably because that’s how it has been referred to in guidebooks. But I’m aware that others call it Vespers. I’ve gone back to the original Descent article detailing its exploration (Issue 40, 1979) and that does indeed refer to it as Vespers. Have I been wrong all along? Does that mean the guidebooks are also wrong? Earth shattering stuff!
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
I presume us regular folks (as well as pedants) are welcome to respond? ;-)

The original exploration account in NPC Journal by Frank Walker is entitled "Vesper Pot".

There is, as you say, an article in Descent 40 (also by Frank Walker!) which refers to "Vespers". It's possible that this is the result of an editor believing the singular "vesper" didn't exist (i.e. the editor may have assumed what was sent to him may have been wrong when it wasn't). "Vespers" is a church service, usually in the evening.

As both the club journal of the discoveres and Northern Caves both use "Vesper" I think this has to be considered the correct name.

But apart from this - get well soon!
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
P.S. I sometimes bump into Jim Birkett, one of the original diggers. I'll try to remember to ask him.
 

rm128

Active member
Thanks Pitlamp. I’m glad you managed to get your reply in before the pedants arrived ;-)

Well that sounds pretty conclusive to me. I shall be that little bit more smug next time the issue arises.
 

JAA

Active member
It’s also an excellent trip! I have a pebble on my bookcase collected from the bottom of the great rubble heap when I was 14. (Alongside others which teenage nerd James collected and wrote dates and caves on. Juniper Gulf at 15 is my favourite lol)
 

rm128

Active member
It’s also an excellent trip! I have a pebble on my bookcase collected from the bottom of the great rubble heap when I was 14. (Alongside others which teenage nerd James collected and wrote dates and caves on. Juniper Gulf at 15 is my favourite lol)
It is indeed an excellent trip, no matter what you call it. Vesper (or Spectacle?) at 14 and Juniper at 15 is impressive. I didn’t even know caving was a thing until I was 19.
 

JAA

Active member
Not sure I was every tough! ;-) I’m indebted to the club that was happy to take in a ridiculously over enthusiastic 14 year old and let him come along and trained me in SRT etc and parents who dropped me off and collected me at unearthly hours! I wonder if the same would happen now? I hope so!
I have fond memories of falling asleep at school on a Monday morning after Penyghent Pot on the Sunday 😂
 

Ian Ball

Well-known member
I quite like Vesper Pot as a trip, I just find the Great Rubble Heap a place to avoid due to the simple likelihood of doom it represents. Those who dug under it for that little pitch are made from stern stuff!
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
I quite like Vesper Pot as a trip, I just find the Great Rubble Heap a place to avoid due to the simple likelihood of doom it represents. Those who dug under it for that little pitch are made from stern stuff!

That was us!

The standard route to the big pitch in Spec used to be along a tightish trench which became a pain, so we dug out the bedding above it for the current take off. Much easier!

When Mike Wooding dived the sump at the bottom of the small pitch, I remember trying to be macho, and wore Mike Wooding's loaded weight belt up the big pitch. I only just made it....
 

JAA

Active member
Yes sorry it was me derailing the topic with memories of Vesper pot trips when I was younger.
 
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