Water Icicle Extensions?

[Rob]

Jenny, thanks for the background details.

....The scientific importance of the discovery was immediately recognised and all those present at this meeting were concerned that the new section should be conserved as far as possible in view of its scientific importance....

If the cave is of such high scientific importance, why can't anyone tell us what's being studied?

 

[Rhys]

Makes me wonder if its better not to gate - it seems to make folk want to go more maybe just to see the gate and not the special 'stuff'. My new 'uns been open weeks and hardly anyone has been down. Clearly the gate is the big crowd puller.

I think you're slightly misunderstanding the situation; Folk aren't actually going to see the gate, they're just moaning about it, which is far easier...
;-)
Rhys

 

[seamoose]

Clearly the gate is the big crowd puller.

It's not the gate, your cave just doesn't have enough mud! 

 

[El Agreb]

Given that cave length is usually based on the centreline which despite the name is rarely equidistant from both passage walls, could the cave gate and leader just be a precaution so it can't be resurveyed and OCC have to hand the rope over to the Titan Diggers. Very easy for the length to increase by 50% especially in larger passages by judicious choice of survey stations based on the strength of getting good elevation profile. All this talk of scientists could just be a smoke screen.

 

[Jenny P]

For access information on the Water Icicle new extensions via the DCA website:  go to Access Information >> W >> Water Icicle and the link is dated 6/8/10.

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Sec.

 

[Mark]

My new 'uns been open weeks

So its "My" now is it, fucking glory grabber

DCA agreed to pay for this particular gate, after discussion at a DCA Council meeting, because the request to gate the extension came from DCA itself, not from Orpheus.

DCA would not normally pay for gating a cave in such a way that it requires restricted access/lock/leadership system unless it was at the express request of the landowner.  Our preferred method of protecting caves/mines where there are conservation issues or the landowner expresses concern is to install a gate/lid fitted with nut/bolt which requires a large adjustable spanner to undo it:  "a Derbyshire key", so that it is accessible to all cavers who know the system but casual visitors are deterred.

This particular situation arose at Water Icicle because an Orpheus member made a detailed presentation on the new discovery to a meeting on Cave Conservation at which a Natural England representative was present as well as DCA representatives and cave scientists.  The scientific importance of the discovery was immediately recognised and all those present at this meeting were concerned that the new section should be conserved as far as possible in view of its scientific importance.  However, the meeting did not specifically request that it be gated.

Following this meeting, DCA representatives, including those who had been at the conservation meeting, discussed the matter and agreed that a gate was the only practical solution; we had in mind the recent vandalism at Giants and the fact that persons unknown had already been into the new section, despite a polite request from the diggers to stay out for the time being.  It was agreed the matter must be raised at the DCA Council meeting due to take place shortly afterwards.  The situation was explained to those present at the DCA meeting and it was agreed that this was an exceptional situation and that Orpheus should be asked if a gate could be installed, which DCA would pay for.  It was also agreed that if, a gate was installed, Orpheus should be asked if they would manage the access.

The matter was raised at an Orpheus Committee meeting later the same day, which accepted the need to gate the discoveries while scientific work took place and on the understanding that DCA itself would pay for the gate.  Orpheus also agreed to manage the access and have now set up the system which allows this to happen.

This is an exceptional situation and all those involved have thought long and hard about how best to deal with it - the decision to gate the newly discovered section was not taken lightly.  Any future decisions about the gate will also involve full discussion with everyone concerned with the scientific work and the conservation of the new section.

Jenny Potts
DCA Hon. Sec.

How long have you been in the Orpheus Jenny

 

[Jenny P]

Since 1965.

Is this relevant?

Those involved in the DCA/Natural England Conservation meeting and subsequent DCA meeting and decisions included members of Orpheus, Eldon, Masson, PDMHS and other clubs plus individual members of DCA, BCA and BCRA.

As DCA Hon. Secretary, I am responsible for explaining to other interested cavers exactly how the situation has arisen, what is being done about it and why.  I'm doing this to the best of my ability so I guess I also get to take the flak.

Jenny P.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Don't feel obliged to do more than you are already, Jenny. Your input is clear, concise, and until the situation changes, I cannot see what else you need to say. There is no need to rise to the bait dangled by people who don't appreciate the work done by people like you, in the DCA, and elsewhere on all our behalves.

 

[Big Jim]

Makes me wonder if its better not to gate - it seems to make folk want to go more maybe just to see the gate and not the special 'stuff'. My new 'uns been open weeks and hardly anyone has been down. Clearly the gate is the big crowd puller.

I think you're slightly misunderstanding the situation; Folk aren't actually going to see the gate, they're just moaning about it, which is far easier...
;-)
Rhys

'n there was me thinking 'I must go and see this special gate'. Bugger - Ill make a gate of my own and then just go to WI and look at the pretties instead.


Noble - you can b******s.  Just cos we didnt call it Marks Marvellous Cave.

J

 

[owd git]

Jim. you're already a legend leave it there
o. G.

 

[Big Jim]

may we come an' ave a look please Jim. (Jon & I)+ a son.
P.S. got a good plan /survey you might like to see 
Cheers Ric'

No prob, will be in touch when I get a quiet spell n sort it out.

 

[Turner]

Are people honestly still arguing about this?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Is it just coincidence that almost all the photos on the UKCaving home page slide show are currently of Mendip entrances, many complete with grills, and quite a few with padlocks?  :-\

 

[Brains]

Is it just coincidence that almost all the photos on the UKCaving home page slide show are currently of Mendip entrances, many complete with grills, and quite a few with padlocks?  :-\

Thought they were all locked and gated, even the worthwhile ones? 

 

[Peter Burgess]

Is it just coincidence that almost all the photos on the UKCaving home page slide show are currently of Mendip entrances, many complete with grills, and quite a few with padlocks?  :-\

Thought they were all locked and gated, even the worthwhile ones? 

Correction: Thought they were all locked and gated, especially the worthwhile ones? 

 

[whitelackington]

Mangle Hole is a good cave,
on Mendip, that's not gated.  :-\

 

[Goydenman]

So much for an assurance the gate is TEMPORARY I see people now have to book for a weekend, one Sunday a month Saturday possible alternative. Even if I were for the Derbys area to go down the gating road which I am not what about people like me who cave weekdays only. As a caving community I can not remember us discussing this and coming to a conclusion the best way to conserve is gating. A discussion may win people like me over, there again I might get the chance to win others over to alternatives. People just going ahead with these gates around the country without having the caving community behind them I fear could lead to a 'cattlemen v ranchers' war and there is not that many cavers as it is even without a major split. I could live with a solution I did not like if the general community were for it - it is the potential split that really concerns me.

 

[T pot 2]

Goydeman
Would you please state where the information regarding the booking system comes from.

T pot

 

[graham]

Goydeman
Would you please state where the information regarding the booking system comes from.

T pot

I've seen it, so it was either laid out on here, or on a link from here.

 

[zomjon]

The booking system is all explained on the Orpheus website.