What caves on access land are completely barred?

[bograt]

I think most caving areas have had issues with this, Peak District had 'Ben' negotiating private access, not to mention  JSB's broken heart over Merlins, Mendip has had the travesty of Hunters, caving Plebs should not be trusted,-----!!!
It may not be you, but they are out there.....

 

[NewStuff]

Crags are quite difficult to hide 

They can deny access as caves aren't currently included in CRoW legislation.

DEFRA say it's just fine to go to the daylight limit... sounds included to me.

 

[mikem]

Most publically accessible formations are only a shadow of their former selves - personally I would rather not have limited access, but don't see how the caves can be protected without it...

Mike

 

[Aubrey]

Most politicians and a lot of the civil service are now occupied with Brexit so it is unlikely that anyone is going to be bothered with a few cavers shouting about CRoW.
I therefore posted the question to find out what will potentially be lost if CRoW for caving is shelved. It appears that the answer is limited to one area in the north of England where caving is taking place despite landowner restrictions.
As I said there have been a lot of beneficial changes in cave access since the CRoW debate started and therefore I believe the case for demanding total free open access has diminished.
The ownership and control of land naturally changes over time and so the opportunity to negotiate better access to difficult sites will eventually come.
Many cavers are not happy with some of the current access procedures but that is something which should be addressed between cavers, it should not need parliament to sort out our internal problems!

 

 

[David Rose]

This too (the upheavals over Brexit) shall pass. I don't agree with Aubrey, though.

 

[jasonbirder]

it should not need parliament to sort out our internal problems!

Parliament wouldn't be sorting out Cavers internal problems - they'd merely be re-intating caving to its rightful place as an outdoor activity alongside walking and climbing...

 

[Simon Wilson]

Most politicians and a lot of the civil service are now occupied with Brexit so it is unlikely that anyone is going to be bothered with a few cavers shouting about CRoW.
I therefore posted the question to find out what will potentially be lost if CRoW for caving is shelved. It appears that the answer is limited to one area in the north of England where caving is taking place despite landowner restrictions.
As I said there have been a lot of beneficial changes in cave access since the CRoW debate started and therefore I believe the case for demanding total free open access has diminished.
The ownership and control of land naturally changes over time and so the opportunity to negotiate better access to difficult sites will eventually come.
Many cavers are not happy with some of the current access procedures but that is something which should be addressed between cavers, it should not need parliament to sort out our internal problems!

I think the real reason why you posted the question is to spread misinformation and to continue the dirty tricks being used by the anti-CRoW campaign. Nobody is "demanding total free access", nobody is asking parliament to do anything and it is not "a few cavers shouting about CRoW"; it is actually the BCA campaigning for CRoW. You are also trying to vastly understate and over-simplify a complex set of issues surrounding access to around 2,000 caves in the North.

Let's turn this around and ask the question that has been asked very many times on this forum and which has not been answered; why are Mendip cavers so opposed to CRoW when it will have virtually no effect in the Mendips?

 

[David Rose]

Well put, Simon.

 

[droid]

is your reply to Aubrey so vehement because you can find bugger all caves where access is denied now but wouldn't be under CRoW, Simon?

 

[NewStuff]

Screw it, name the caves, or specific area, that way we know where to avoid.

 

[Smiley Alan]

I think the real reason why you posted the question is to spread misinformation and to continue the dirty tricks being used by the anti-CRoW campaign.
/quote]

what kind  of dirty tricks ? I dont remeber seeing  any but pehaps I missed it .