What do you wear to stay warm underground?

[martinb]

I started off with a one size too small warmbac, which really was a little too tight. I then bought a Caving Supplies suit, which was good, but didn't have elasticated cuffs, which are really useful when digging or swimming!

I sold the warmbac, but kept the Caving Supplies suit, but treated myself to a boil in the bag Meander.

I didn't get on with the Meander, too stiff when cold, too hot when warm, liable to rips when caving in sharp limestone. I sold that after a couple of years and went back to the caving supplies suit.

I then invested in a Warmbac caving suit with neoprene cuffs and collar. Probably the best caving suit I've had to date, brilliant for digging and bimbling around. No nasty gloops of mud by your elbow or cold water finding its way to your meat and 2 veg via your neck or wrist.

Always had a fleecy, bought a cheap one at first then invested in one of Mr Jump's finest, which is still going strong almost 10 years later. I always wash it after each trip in cold water rinse in washing machine, then left to dry naturally.

Neoprene wetsocks to above ankle, stout kneepads, wellybobs, chemical gloves - again very robust when digging, Petzel Ecrin Roc with petzel duo with custom insert and backup. Occaisionally wore a hood to keep me head warm whilst digging.

 

[ZombieCake]

A reasonable while back in time an acquaintance was often humorously conjecting that myself and her girlfriend were trying to get rid of her for a bit of peace and quiet.  Apparently, if I ever got stuck in a cave, to help me out, she'd drop a sheep on my head from a great height so I'd both have something to eat and a fleece to keep me warm. Sweet.

 

[nearlywhite]

Thanks - could you just elaborate on what a "dive skin" is? Cheers.

Yup a thermal undersuit for drysuits, apparently dive skin is a term some Americans use for them...

 

[Madness]

I wear a dive skin instead of a furry now, there are quite a number of varieties of thickness (read: warmth & weight) but they also generally cost about a quarter to a third of the price of an AV furry

Could you post a link for where these can be bought so cheaply?

 

[nearlywhite]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lomo-Element-Fleece-Drysuit-Undersuit/dp/B00IINA3IU/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=thermal+undersuit&qid=1580681877&sprefix=thermal+undersui&sr=8-1

The ones I got have gone up from ?25 to ?40 (still great value IMO) but this one is ?29 plus ?6 for delivery. These are the ones I got when they were discounted:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Typhoon-Black-Lightweight-Underfleece-Drysuit/dp/B00BPXAHOA/ref=pd_aw_sim_200_2/260-8600440-4666636?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00HW3914O&pd_rd_r=b7992ea3-1792-4c60-88c1-d8128bd8d005&pd_rd_w=e3JjM&pd_rd_wg=3vxb6&pf_rd_p=e849a59d-12a9-403f-976a-4505ed7dc05e&pf_rd_r=B5CBGTY2YKSEW4PWVKV0&psc=1&refRID=B5CBGTY2YKSEW4PWVKV0

 

[mikem]

Unless you happen to be near their Glasgow Store (or same price direct):
https://www.lomo.co.uk/acatalog/Thinsulate-undersuits-drysuit-fleece-uketc.html

Alternatively Typhoon a bit cheaper from Cardiff:
https://www.escape-watersports.co.uk/clothing/thermals/typhoon-lightweight-undersuit-detail

 

[mikem]

Also Stockton on Tees - same price for Typhoon:
https://www.nswatersports.co.uk/clothing-c33/thermal-tops-c138/typhoon-lightweight-thermal-undersuit-p1162

Nottingham (bit more): https://desmes.co.uk/product/typhoon-lightweight-undersuit/

https://www.manchester-canoes-and-kayaks.co.uk/clothing-canoeing-kayaking/paddling-thermals.htm

Rather than buying through amazon.

 

[mikem]

& a few other options for those wanting to try the suit on (at a reduced price):

Runcorn, Cheshire: https://www.go-kayaking.com/4091/products/2020-typhoon-lightweight-undersuit.aspx

Felixstowe: https://seamarknunn.com/acatalog/Fleece-and-Thermal-Wear.html

Plymouth: https://www.aquanauts.co.uk/typhoon-lightweight-undersuit

Northampton: https://www.pinbax.com/index.asp?Details=49579

& Essex: https://www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk/thermal-layering-c-28_97_102.html

Some of them will deliver for free, others up to ?10, if you're ordering online.

Their 100g Undersuit is Made from a Ree-Tec outer with a fibre pile inner, with a TOG rating of 3, (Lightweight is 1) & the 200g is a Ree-Tec outer and fibre pile inner with double fill, the suit has a TOG rating of 4.5.

 

[Keris82]

Sometimes I wear a wetsuit but can get cold when waiting around. If it's not too much of a wet trip I'll wear a neoprene vest under my lomo furry which keeps me quite warm. I got the vest from decathlon and it's got capped lycra shoulders (short sleeved). I've also started wearing seal skins socks over my wetsocks as I always get cold feet

 

[Pitlamp]

If buying a wetsuit, try and find one which has nylon lining only on the inside; they're warmer. The double lined neoprene suits which have been the fashion for many years, trap a lot of water on the outside, which then very efficiently takes heat from the skin to evaporate itself, causing significant cooling.

Single lined neoprene also stays more supple than the double lined equivalent, saving energy on hard caving trips.

Also, avoid those wetsuits with seams constructed with a narrow strip of nylon fabric tape stitched to each side, held on by four rows of stitching going through the neoprene. Those four lines of holes are brilliant for allowing cold water to flush between suit and skin, making you get cold very quickly.

If you look at photos of cavers in the 70s they're almost all wearing single lined neoprene wetsuits. They were used to great effect - I can't help wondering whether the shift to "fashionable" coloured wetsuits, with all their disadvantages to the wearer described above, are part of the reason for the preference for oversuits & undersuits by many cavers (where practicable) these days.

I suspect photographers wouldn't be too keen on us all wandering around coloured black, against black backgrounds in caves though! But, then again, single lined neoprene wetsuits cause less steam to upset photographers.

I really don't want to start a "wetsuits vs oversuit & furry" discussion here - the above thoughts are offered purely to help anyone considering the purchase of a wetsuit; they may be worth factoring in to your choice of make and model.

 

[Madness]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lomo-Element-Fleece-Drysuit-Undersuit/dp/B00IINA3IU/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=thermal+undersuit&qid=1580681877&sprefix=thermal+undersui&sr=8-1

I bought one of those direct from the Lomo website about 6 months ago. I thought it was a bargain when I ordered it. I was disappointed when it arrived.

It is far too thick/warm and inflexible to cave in, and I can only assume that divers are a lot 'rounder' than I am.
I gave it away to a diver friend, as it would have never been used by me.

 

[braveduck]

After caving for 60 years, in the last few years I finally found the perfect under clothing .
Smart Wool  wet or dry if skin tight works for me . Surface digging in -8C wind chill ,has kept me alive .
Try it . Also one hundred percept Poly Propylene long stockings if you can get hold of them
I had two pairs specially made for me loop stich ,brilliant .

 

[braveduck]

Also to keep your hands warm under PVC or other waterproof Digging gloves ,wear Poly prop Liner gloves .
They are very thin and they wick the sweat away from your skin so keep you hands toasty warm .

 

[braveduck]

Best time to buy Smart Wool is in spring in Skipton ,the outdoor shops are usually selling off
much cheaper than winter prices .

 

[andrewmcleod]

Can't go wrong with Powerstretch
(with/replaced by neoprene for very wet conditions, obviously)

 

[nearlywhite]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lomo-Element-Fleece-Drysuit-Undersuit/dp/B00IINA3IU/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=thermal+undersuit&qid=1580681877&sprefix=thermal+undersui&sr=8-1

I bought one of those direct from the Lomo website about 6 months ago. I thought it was a bargain when I ordered it. I was disappointed when it arrived.

It is far too thick/warm and inflexible to cave in, and I can only assume that divers are a lot 'rounder' than I am.
I gave it away to a diver friend, as it would have never been used by me.

Yeah the middle is oddly big.

You can get them in different thicknesses, I definitely got a lighter one but I'd agree they're heavy. For a furry. Not something that's ever bothered me but I'm quite a big person.

 

[mikem]

Because they are also made to fit kayakers & sailors, the extra material allows them to sit down:
https://www.lomo.co.uk/acatalog/kayaking-undersuits-fleece-kayak.html#SID=63

They only do one weight of fleece, although that may have changed over time.

 

[Keris82]

I love my lomo fleece. It can be a little too warm for dry caving but it does keep me quite warm if it gets wet. As for fit, the middle is fine. It's the legs I find very narrow and have to put my wet socks on first because I can't roll up the legs

 

[T pot 2]

Skin,
Nowadays the way forward is to stay warm with modern kit and to rig pitches out of the water.
In the past long John's a pair of overalls, hobnail boots were deriguire.
In the words of a sadly missed caver of some repute, if ye aren't tough lad tha shunt av come.
Memories are what they always should be.
T

 

[Boy Engineer]

Those cuff pieces are good. If you wear gloves on a wet trip, neoprene gloves will be better than alternatives.

On trips where long delays are expected I've carried a short length of hosepipe or PVC tube (available from Ashfield DIY in Settle, if you're in the Dales and need a bit). When you have an enforced stop put one end of the pipe in your mouth and feed the other end down your oversuit. Breathe in through the nose and out through the pipe, so that air warmed by the lungs goes inside the oversuit. You might look weird but your overall heat loss will be quite a lot less. It's very light to carry (perhaps secured around a helmet if you're not taking a personal bag) and the price is right.

There?s some interesting commentary about this in the article on airway warming here: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fdocuments.in/amp/document/equipment-for-airway-warming-in-the-treatment-of-accidental-hypothermia.html

Spend enough time languishing in a hospital bed and you find all sorts of stuff on the Internet.