What foot ascender to get

[David Rose]

Once you get going on a biggish, open pitch and the rope is running easily through the chest ascender, I find it makes no difference whether you use a foot ascender or not.Indeed, ordinary frog can be easier. Somehow it feels as if you have more power in each step. For me, the biggest advantage of using one comes close to a rebelay or the bottom, or in a narrow fissure - Bitch Pitch in JH, for example. It saves fiddling to get the rope between your boots in an awkward spot or strenuously yanking it through by hand. I agree with the point about RH ascenders and RHanded riggers.

 

[PeteHall]

I think the real benefit of using a Pantin is that when using the rope walking technique, every inch you climb up counts. You don't loose a load of height (hard won gravitational potential energy) by sitting down in your harness.

It does genuinely use less energy to ascend a pitch rope-walking than fogging. The only thing is, that you have all your weight on your legs the whole time, you don't get a rest between steps, so you do need to be fitter...

 

[Tangent_tracker]

I will never understand why folk suggest right pantin if you are right dominant.

One reason might be the information provided by Petzl, which has no mention of foot dominance.

7. Caving-type progression
It is preferable to use the right-foot PANTIN in conjunction with CROLL and ASCENSION ascenders.
The left-foot PANTIN is not recommended for this configuration, because of the increased complexity of passing re-belays.
- Simultaneous progression:
Push with both legs at the same time (more comfortable and more power).
- Alternating progression:
One leg after the other (very fast). The TORSE (or SECUR) shoulder strap should be looser to allow an upright chest position. This technique requires good physical fitness and serious training. It is easier to introduce yourself to this technique where you can be in contact with a wall.

The Pantin is an aid, not primary device!

Technically speaking, the chest ascender is the primary device and a Pantin and top ascender and foot loop combination are both aids.

Your dominant leg should always remain with the foot loop, absolute no brainer.

I'm not sure about it being an absolute no brainer

Your dominant leg is your preferred leg and some people have different preferences for different activities. My dominant leg is my right leg so on a snowboard I should lead with my left foot forward. I don't, I'm Goofy.

I must admit to not getting on with foot-mounted ascenders. I just use a basic top ascender and a long length of accessory cord to make the foot loop and security cord. I have a tubular tape protector threaded over the foot loop section and usually get a good few years out of them. I have both feet in the foot loop unless kicking myself away from an obstruction, which I would generally do with my left foot. It's secured to an Omni Triact on the harness with a small Croll.

Over the past 40 years I must have tried nearly every type of rope climbing method and I always come back to the traditional Frog technique. I really can't see the point of using a foot mounted ascender unless you were using the Alternating Progression technique.

I always gaze upwards in amazement at Hidden Earth when people like Mark Sims demonstrate the technique so effortlessly. I'm usually out of breath just feeding the rope through the lowering device! 

At the end of the day, so long as the increased complexity of passing re-belays with a left foot Pantin has been mastered then the choice of left or right foot Pantin (other manufacturers are available) is really down to what you prefer.

Mark

Yes I have to accept Petzl's reasoning here although I personally have never had problems passing rebelays, as technically nothing has changed for me. You have to remove your pantin anyway!
I prussik by default with my right leg in foot loop (or both feet in double loops) and so shall remain to do so, with the pantin as an aid, more for the bottom stretch of rope than further up.
On a side note I agree with the sentiments above in order to continuously walk a full rope you have to be considerably fitter than you otherwise would be!
I will say a pantin is always going to be secondary to a footloop though!

 

[caving_fox]

I think the real benefit of using a Pantin is that when using the rope walking technique, every inch you climb up counts. You don't loose a load of height (hard won gravitational potential energy) by sitting down in your harness.

It does genuinely use less energy to ascend a pitch rope-walking than fogging. The only thing is, that you have all your weight on your legs the whole time, you don't get a rest between steps, so you do need to be fitter...

Tighten your chest harness then?  I'm not aware of any sit when I'm frogging, until I stop to take a breather. I'm either on the croll, or standing into the loop. I don't sag into the croll, it's tight on me.

 

[PeteHall]

A tight chest harness certainly helps, but I would be very surprised if there is no drop as you load the croll.

Easy way to check, next time you are frogging, touch your nose to the rope at the top of your step; does it move down the rope at all as you transfer weight to the croll? If so, how much?

Assuming your nose moves an inch back down the rope (which would seem pretty good to me) and you take an 18 inch step (which seems fair), that's roughly 6% lost every step. I'm struggling to believe it is possible to get more efficient than this, but would be really interested to see if it could be improved...

 

[andrewmcleod]

Or another test: after the 'sit' part, how far do you go before the croll starts to slide up the rope? All of that effort is wasted.
Or how much effort can you put into a complete frogging cycle without actually going anywhere (but just starting to move each ascender)?

The human body is designed to move weight from foot to foot but not from foot/feet to a strap that goes round your waist. Even if you assume no slumping backwards, there will still be a bit of slumping downwards.

I just need to work off the winter chocolate and get my fitness up enough that I can actually manage ropewalking for more than about 10m!

 

[Mike Hopley]

One lesser-known option: the new Pantin can be fitted with a catch. This is what I'm using nowadays.

The catch is cheap, easy to install, and easy to remove if you decide you don't like it.