Wiinets Head Cave

[T pot 2]

After Ben Bentham & Mr Fox discovered Fox Chamber in Winnets Head Cave I was fortunate to be one of the first to have a look at the Harpur Hill series which ended at a sump. Somewhere in my fading memory I seem to remember that efforts were made to pump the sump out and that the result was pumped water somehow returned to the sump in some way thus the sump surface never went down.

Who tried to pump the sump and is it in a trip report somewhere ?

Was the sump ever dived to a conclusion ?

As an aside did anyone push the passage in the bedding plane / rift on the left hand side of Fox Chamber just after the break through point ?


T pot

 

[SamT]

I think it might have been Phil Burke that was involved in pushing the harpur hill series.

Not sure, Jon Pembo might have some info.

As for the rift on the left, not sure but I dont think so.

 

[Dickie]

Hi T

On the trip that Ben, Phil and me found the right hole to go down towards Fox Chamber, I followed a short vadose passage to a sump off to the left of the first chamber you get to at the bottom of the entrance crawl. Was this ever looked at again?

Cheers

Dickie

 

[John B]

Ben and I (and others) poked into all the holes off the top chambers when we were looking for a way on down. Nothing went anywhere then, but when Ben found the way down to Fox Chamber everything else became insignificant. I thought we surveyed everything, but I can't identify the page that covers these so perhaps we didn't. Worth another look!

 

[SamT]

I was working on the survey a few years ago.

I've got all the survey info...available, both from john beck and pete ward.  However I never located the Harpur Hill series survey data.

I cant remember if Jon Pemberton et al went and surveyed it.  If they did, I dont think I've got the data.

 

[Goydenman]

After Ben Bentham & Mr Fox discovered Fox Chamber in Winnets Head Cave I was fortunate to be one of the first to have a look at the Harpur Hill series which ended at a sump. Somewhere in my fading memory I seem to remember that efforts were made to pump the sump out and that the result was pumped water somehow returned to the sump in some way thus the sump surface never went down.

Who tried to pump the sump and is it in a trip report somewhere ?

Was the sump ever dived to a conclusion ?

As an aside did anyone push the passage in the bedding plane / rift on the left hand side of Fox Chamber just after the break through point ?


T pot

Quite a lot of effort was put into the sump at the end of Harper Hill series and from what  I remember it went through to a mud choke. Such an interesting way to get to a passage - so out of sight but significant.  I remember the bedding you mention and getting into and pushing it with a guy called Duncan Richardson. Did not get into much but cant remember how it finished sorry been too many years.

 

[Wardy]

in the later extensions beyond the sewer we found a lead that we thought may connect to the Harper Hill series.
once through the sewer and up the aven you continue to the where the new streamway enters from above.
instead of going up where the water cascades down you bypass that up the drier route and before rejoining the water a passage goes off to a sump.
we all thought this could link to the Harper hill series and Jim Hurlston dragged the pump from the sewer up there in an attempt to drain it, but to no avail - the idea being that a link could bypass the bottom choke and sewer.
Would be interesting to know if they link, because that could make a more reliable long term route into the extensions and if not there are two really interesting leads.
Definitely worth a look by anyone interested in Harpur Hill series

 

[SamT]

Eyup Pete!!

I've just been looking at what survey stuff I had.  The supposed link was exactly why I was looking at the survey (as well as wanting to know how close to surface the upstream avens are).  It struck me that I'd only ever seen sections, but no plan.

Anyhow, it turned out we didn't have survey data for the harpur hill series - nor a detailed survey of the upstream avens.  thus, I never got round to doing those surveys.

Some of the Eldon lads had a good poke around in the Harpur Hill series a couple of years ago and I'm not sure if they surveyed it or not. I'll find out.

I spent quite some time learning to use Tunnel to draw up the survey, but was waiting till i'd got the data from harpur hill and the upstream sumps before completing it.

 

[Goydenman]

in the later extensions beyond the sewer we found a lead that we thought may connect to the Harper Hill series.
once through the sewer and up the aven you continue to the where the new streamway enters from above.
instead of going up where the water cascades down you bypass that up the drier route and before rejoining the water a passage goes off to a sump.
we all thought this could link to the Harper hill series and Jim Hurlston dragged the pump from the sewer up there in an attempt to drain it, but to no avail - the idea being that a link could bypass the bottom choke and sewer.
Would be interesting to know if they link, because that could make a more reliable long term route into the extensions and if not there are two really interesting leads.
Definitely worth a look by anyone interested in Harpur Hill series

Fascinating - be good if someone pushes it and finds out 

 

[martinm]

just wondering if anyone remembers Pox Chamber? (c) Ben Bentham, RIP.    I do, but it'd be interesting to find out if anyone remembers it! Also I used to have a plan survey of WHC, sure it was in an old EPC journal which I've no longer got. Showed Harpur Hill Series I think, but it was b4 'Down in the Sewer' was pushed, I think...

 

[JonP]

I never got around to looking the the Harpur hill series at all, let alone surveyed it! Will give you a hand SamT if you fancy it? This was around the time that Dan climbed to the roof in Fox chamber and JT dived the sump below the second choke.

I have a survey of Winnats which I bought from HnH which goes down to fox chamber but no Harpur hill series on it (very detailed too). I've got the Eldon Journal Vol. 9 No. 3 (1983) "Winnats head cave and discovery" - Keith Bentham, which makes a really interesting read. not loads of information regarding Harpur hill but mention of its discovery and how they couldn't return the way they entered so had to dig a new way out! It also very humorous Ben rambling on about how he, "Should have taken the winch along that fatefull day and not Fox." :tease:

 

[Moose]

This is the 3d model of Winnats Head Cave we have on the 3d Castleton Caves model.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ibyb4re8siiyb1v/Winnats_Head_Cave.3d?dl=0

I would be interested in adding anything else to this if anyone gets round to surveying.

I can also create a very accurate surface overlay so if you need to know how far you are from the surface it will be very easy to find out. Will work on that over the weekend and update the file...

 

[Moose]

In fact, here you are....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdcnd7rnv9ihp7t/Winnats_Head_Cave_Master.3d?dl=0

It's overkill on the surface data as it's the top section of the Peak surface data but you'll see that the upstream end of the cave (according to my data, which you gave me Sam) is 28m from the surface.

 

[pwhole]

Me and Domee popped in last weekend to have a look at the Harpur Hill Series, as we'd never seen it - very interesting. Much looks hypogenic, and quite unlike the rest of the cave - probably too stable and small-scale to collapse inwards as the other chambers did. I was also struck by its similarity to the lower passages in Longcliffe Mine, which are also hypogenic, and which are in a direct straight line with WHC, along the vein (and disregarding Winnats Pass, which is probably more recent). Unless someone did survey this at a later date, I'm guessing this is another job to add to the list?

A few snaps below - just on the phone sadly, but OK. The last shot shows Domee sketching in the passage that leads down to the mud sump (not far).

 

[pwhole]

A couple of shots of the bottom 'canyon' passage in Longcliffe for comparison, with the late Andy Farrow in the miners' access-way, and then Clive Westlake with fluorescein near the dig face, 20m SE of the Speedwell canal. All of it is hypogenic and still in the reef limestone, and we haven't found any scalloping indicating a vadose phase, but it appears the place was filling up with sediment whilst still flooded. with the top of the passage being the most recent, rather than the oldest. The dip here is totally opposite to the local dip, and heading NW, suggesting it's traversing down the side of a large reef-knoll.