wildlife in caves

[Burt]

I noticed 2 toads today in Swildon's, just on the upstream side of sump 1.

Didn't take them out as I had nothing suitable to put them in except a pocket, and I wasn't prepared to squash them.

Should I have:
a) taken them out in a suitable container if I had one?
b) left them to their own devices, maybe to die and pollute the cave?
c) Shove them through the sump and help them on their way to Wookey?

Discuss...

 

[Les W]

Toads don't live in water so I would think they should have come out if you had the necessary kit to carry them. I have bought a toad out from the bottom of P8 in my glove. 

The cold environment in the cave slows the metabolism of amphibians and they are almost certainly destined to a slow death in the cave with little in the way of food.  :thumbsdown:

 

[Burt]

Agreed. Toads are certainly happier under mildly moist rocks in the garden eating slugs - that's what they do in my garden, anyway!

If anyone is going to S1 then any chance of being a hero and saving a toady life in an ice cream tub??

 

[Bob Smith]

I have removed toads from St. Cuthberts swallet in the top of my lid before (not sure a toad would absorb an impact from a rock, but willing to spare my cranium for amphibian liberation 8)) they get a bit wamer up there, and subsequently more active, and then do the toad panic thing (leak on you :yucky but seem pretty happy to be released in the end.

 

[Elaine]

At Templeton we have a 'frog box' which is to collect up the frogs and toads, etc that we find at the bottom each week. We take them up to the top in the skip and try to empty the box well away from the hole. In the hedge somewhere is usually the best option. It is amazing how many frogs etc seem to survive the entrance plummet. They must come in from the top, I found one on the 122ft platform once, unless it climbed the ladder it must have fallen in.

I took one out of Wigmore too in my oversuit. That is a 20ft or so drop. Likewise, Singing River Mine is 30ft and they are always at the bottom of that entrance shaft. It is amazing they can fall that far and survive. Rabbits however don't. But I carry them out too cos they don't half pong after a very short time!

 

[ditzy 24//7]

we took a frog out of water icicle in a camera bag.

 

[Brains]

Must have fallen about 100' feet - dont remember seeing any insects down there so doubt it fell in as tiny froglet and grew. Those amphibians must be tough little besties...

 

[ditzy 24//7]

Must have fallen about 100' feet - dont remember seeing any insects down there so doubt it fell in as tiny froglet and grew. Those amphibians must be tough little besties...

must be, the amount you have thrown out of the garden and seen them survive
then again your only saving them form the fate fo the stiganator.

 

[Katie]

I have seen many alive frogs at the bottom of Hazard mine entrance shaft and spotted no dead ones around the same place. This is a fall of 80m and they seem to routinely survive

 

[ditzy 24//7]

I have seen many alive frogs at the bottom of Hazard mine entrance shaft and spotted no dead ones around the same place. This is a fall of 80m and they seem to routinely survive

it seems it must be frogs that live in caves/mines rather than bears 

 

[Rob]

it seems it must be frogs that live in caves/mines rather than bears 

I'm sure he'd disagree... 

On original subject, take em out if ya can be bothered, otherwise just let evolution take it's place (unless humans dug the cave entrance cos then it's our fault of course!).

 

[Peter Burgess]

A word of caution. Newts, or at least one species of newt, are protected species and there are laws about their handling and disturbance, a bit like bats. Maybe someone else knows more. Anyway, newts can find their way into caves as well.

 

[kay]

A word of caution. Newts, or at least one species of newt, are protected species and there are laws about their handling and disturbance, a bit like bats. Maybe someone else knows more. Anyway, newts can find their way into caves as well.

According to info on the British Ecological Society website, protection is under the Countryside and Wildlife Act 1981.

If the disturbance is shown to be ?an incidental result of a lawful operation and could not reasonably have been avoided?, the person who did the damage is not guilty of an offence.

Possible exemptions are:

acting in the interests of animal health
tending injured animals
rescue operations

 

[Peter Burgess]

So it is probably not good enough to simply 'rescue' the amphibians, but find a nice local pond for them. If you repeatedly find yourself rescuing frogs, toads and newts, it might be a good idea to get in touch with a local expert group to find out where is the best place to release them?

 

[paul]

Must have fallen about 100' feet - dont remember seeing any insects down there so doubt it fell in as tiny froglet and grew. Those amphibians must be tough little besties...

There are quite often a load of beetles around the foot of the entrance shaft in Water Icicle Close Cavern so any frogs/toads would have some food at least.

Interestingly, there were several frogs of all sizes at the bottom of Eldon Hole a fortnight ago so either a whole family jumped together or they are breeding down there...

 

[ditzy 24//7]

iv always thought the best place to releace all three woulkd be in a pond area, lotts of water,bugs and grass plants.

 

[Big Jim]

According to info on the British Ecological Society website, protection is under the Countryside and Wildlife Act 1981.

[/quote]

Not wishing to be a pedantic, but its the Wildlife and Countryside Act of 1981.

I saw shed loads of Common Frogs and a single Common Toad in Eldon Hole t'other day and decided to leave em to it. I plan to return and dig a small pond in there just so they can breed and be happy :hug:  Nah, not really.

It is tempting but I (even as a nature loving veggie type) tend to agree with Rob and go for the 'let nature takes it's course' approach.  If I saw one in distress or injured Id have no hesitation in stamping on it.

 

[kay]

Not wishing to be a pedantic,

 

[Big Jim]

Not wishing to be a pedantic,

:tease:

Very, very sorry!

 

[mrodoc]

Just remember which country you are in before doing amphibian rescue! Salamanders like it underground I think although the ones in Morocco were surface species. The largest thing we rescued was a terrapin which had survived a fall down a 20 metre pitch - I suspect the beast entered the cave when it was in full flood and then got stranded as the waters dropped.