Winch Meet Question

[BenM]

This is really a question aimed at somebody in the Bradford:

Bringing my Dad up this weekend to send him down on the "t'old winch". Was aiming to get down first to take some pictures of his decent (and get a quick caving trip in). Will any of the entrances be rigged (specifically Bar?).

If not.. anybody know the rope lengths needed for Bar? I ain't got any Yorkshire guide books 

Thanks
Ben!

 

[langcliffe]

I'm not a member of the BPC, but:

All the main entrances are rigged. Do be sure to register first at the winch tent before descending any of the entrances

 

[Lurker]

That sounds great - caving with no tacklesacks to lug around!  Anyone know if there is some sort of goodwill fee for using the BPC ropes on the rigged entrances?  It would be a shame to walk all the way up in caving gear but not bring money if it's needed!

 

[ianball11]

I've never paid anything.

Ian B.

 

[Basher]

Hi All,
The BPC rig most entrances these days, but worth checking with our "booking in tent" at the main shaft to confirm what is rigged.
Certainly rigged will be Bar, Stream, Flood/Wades (whatever you would wish to call it), probably Disappointment Pot & Corkys, not sure re Henslers or Marylin!
Also Dihedral is rigged, BUT ONLY FOR BPC MEMBERS WITH NO EXCEPTION!!
We have had countless individuals & clubs over the years wishing to descend Dihedral on our winch meet, and experience has taught us to sadly deny all the right to do it on our ropes, so many have got hung up, had problems etc etc.
Over rigging our ropes is an option, but on such a pitch is not recommended, come back when we are not there if you really want to do Dihedral.
Sorry for being so negative re Dihedral on our meet, but we have most other routes rigged, so no tackle needed, just let us know at the booking in tent where you are going down & out, no fee needed if not using the winch, and let us know when you are out.  All a courteous gesture, but an on site rescue service if you get lost etc.
See you up there I hope?

Cheers

Basher

 

[langcliffe]

I suspect that Small Mammal and Marilyn are also rigged. I know that four members of BPC descended SMP on Thursday, and that a member plus guest descended Marilyn on Wednesday evening. It's unlikely that they have been derigged.

 

[Basher]

Thanks for that Langcliffe,
May I also say, do not descend any entrance to GG if not an experienced caver, with etiquette and manners in your pocket first.
Last year We, BPC that is went to descend Bar Pot, to check out the very severe wear on the ropes we endure on this particular entrance.
Approaching the big pitch, some "Caving Guide/Instructor" was "mentoring" another 2 persons up the pitch, needless to say we waited until all were up & out the way, here the story starts, on traversing out to the edge of the big pitch, I could not lift the rope enough to thread my rack!!
Weight of rope? Wimp me? (Have you met me?), tackle bag at the bottom weighted with rocks?.........No, More.
Ally managed to thread her Stop & not lock it off, she descended to find the rope tied off to a flake of rock at the bottom of the pitch, loaded with about 4 stone of rocks!!!
Just goes to show that these pseudo Cave instructors aint worth the price of the rope to wrap around their necks, for their mal practice & their disregard for everyone else who would descend said hole.
Get your paying prussikers out & F**k all else?
Sorry all, ranting here, but take heed, If I catch anyone doing this again, I'll kick off big style, and provide a lecture not to forget ever!
Last man up deals with bouncy rope & frogs it, pulling through ascenders when needed, leaving the pitch for all to ascend or descend as should be!
I.E. not weighted & belayed like a piece of elastic!!
Comments & views please,

CU at GG

Basher

 

[Pitlamp]

I was that guest of the BPC down Marylin / Dis on Wednesday - and very grateful I was for being invited on a most pleasant trip.

(Watch the final Marylin pitch though folks; it's never really been sorted out well for safe SRT, although I believe there were some plans for improvements.)

 

[MSD]

A few years ago I went down Dis and out of Bar using the BPC ropes. Since I hadn't been there for a decade, the guys in the tent even gave me a clear description of the routefinding to get from Hensler's Master Cave through to Bar, which was very helpful, since I hadn't packed a guidebook but just turned up on a whim. Top service

I agree that tying a load of rocks on the bottom of a rope is an idiotic thing to do.

Can't say I understand why Dihedral should be any more difficult than some of the other entrances, but it's your ropes, so you make the rules.

Mark

 

[Pitlamp]

I suspect it's more a case of things not being dropped onto visitors in the Main Chamber, i.e. for safety reasons.

 

[dunc]

I suspect it's more a case of things not being dropped onto visitors in the Main Chamber, i.e. for safety reasons.

So BPC members wouldn't drop anything whereas other cavers might do? :-\

 

[barrabus]

I was told a story about someone I know who was going down Dihedral when the Winch Meet was on.

He'd apparently been given permission to go down but as he was descending he managed to disturb a large stone and all he could do was carefully manhandle it into his tackle sack. This prevented the rope from coming out of the sack so he had to ascend the rope carrying the aforementioned rock. Better than dropping it into the (heavily populated) abyss!

 

[theFerret]

Just in reply to Basher - not wanting to cause a huge debate!!! I completely understand your annoyance with said Guide/instructor, i dont know anyone who wouldnt be fuming at that sort of behaviour. But as one of the said guide/instructor community i have to say that your view that we are ALL not worth the money - you are very wrong!!!!!  unfortunately there are some out there that do things the rest of us dont condone but that is why we have a professional association, the members of which stick to a high code of instruction and endure to maintain a good relationship with other cavers. Im sorry you ran accross one of the un-thoughtful ones but please dont tar the rest of us with the same brush!!!

 

[Pitlamp]

Dunc - the winch meet attracts cavers with a wide spectrum of abilities. The Bradford is a good club with an excellent safety ethos. It also has members with a very good understanding of the importance of avoiding accidents to people in the Main Chamber. If other cavers arrive during winching and want to use the Dihedral ropes the BPC has no way of assessing their competence or influencing their actions. By limiting the Dihedral route to members only (who have a very good understanding of the safety implications germaine to mixing SRT with winching activities) the club is able to retain a reasonable level of control of the situation.

(Incidentally I've never been a member of the BPC, so you can take it that I'm completely unbiased.)

 

[dunc]

Pitlamp - I agree with what you're saying, but a BPC could still drop something regardless of how safety conscious they are (accidents do happen.)

 

[Pitlamp]

True - as indeed could any winch riding tourist I suppose (e.g. an unsecured camera). But I guess that the BPC's approach to the use of the Dihedral ropes is all part of a wider picture of managing the level of winch meet risk. The BPC is certainly not implying that all other cavers aren't competent but by limiting Dihedral to members only this reduces the overall level of risk since there will be far fewer descents and ascents.

There is, of course, all the rest of the year to do Dihedral.

Incidentally even CPC members can't do Dihedral during the day when the winch is actually running in August so, if anything, the BPC approach is slightly less restrictive.

I realise it's a pain but none of us wants this fine institution being stopped because of an accident so I suppose it's best to err on the side of caution, especially if the safety of members of the general public is in question.

 

[dunc]

There is, of course, all the rest of the year to do Dihedral.

Indeed! And it will be quieter, not floodlit, better all round

 

[Cavegod]

Strange that as a few years ago we went up dihedral after asking permission from the winchman at the bottom, we were not members of bradford either, he just said if they ask say you have just joined!  nice pitch though with all the flood lighting and great to watch the winch from the ledge!

shame really as i would gladly pay to go down that route this week.

 

[Basher]

Just in reply to Basher - not wanting to cause a huge debate!!! I completely understand your annoyance with said Guide/instructor, i dont know anyone who wouldnt be fuming at that sort of behaviour. But as one of the said guide/instructor community i have to say that your view that we are ALL not worth the money - you are very wrong!!!!!  unfortunately there are some out there that do things the rest of us dont condone but that is why we have a professional association, the members of which stick to a high code of instruction and endure to maintain a good relationship with other cavers. Im sorry you ran accross one of the un-thoughtful ones but please dont tar the rest of us with the same brush!!!

Please, I do not wish to upset all the excellent Instructors out there, my "rant" did have the word "instructor" in "quotes"! :bow:

 

[cap n chris]

I've met some "cavers" in my time.