c**tplaces said:
So the law/rules and regulations (whatever) itself creates a situation were highly skilled, experianced people are prevented from taking groups and its left to the likes of me (some dumb idiot with a lamp)... Fricken scary huh.
Not really. The scheme is what is used to establish that someone
is highly skilled and experienced and knows their way along a safe route in a specific mine. The scheme also requires a qualified engineer inspects the mine and agrees it is safe for organised trips to use.
c**tplaces said:
"cave/mine leadership scheme" is this something I could do?
Yes, it's open to anyone who wants to pay the money to do it. Whether it's of much
use to each individual person if they don't lead organised groups underground is another matter.
I'm not too hot on the finer points, but I think the general principles are that the LCM (Local Cave Mine) Leadership scheme provides a means of training and approving trip 'leaders' to take organised (usually paid) parties (eg. outdoor adventure groups etc) underground in a safe and controlled manner.
So far as mines are concerned, the groups have to follow an 'approved route'. The approved route needs to be checked regualarly (I think it's two years) by a suitably qualified mining engineer who will make recommendations (eg. need to garden that bit of roof etc.) before signing it off as ok.
Subsequent trips organised under the provisions of the scheme should be led by an approved leader and can
only follow the approved route and may not deviate from it.
Under the scheme the leader will gain approval for each mine (with an approved route!) in their local area (hence the term 'Local' Cave/Mine...) and will have to demonstrate that they know the route etc.
It's a good scheme that gives organised parties a visit underground in a safe and controlled manner. The approval of the route is based on the professional opinion of a mining engineer, (who will carry professional liability insurance) rather than the opinion of each trip leader - which means there is a known standard for all visits to the same mine.
Now as to whether is worth doing the training, that's up to each individual person. Although training grants can be obtained through NCA (I think), it will still cost money to go on the training course. At the end of it you will only be able to take trips to specific mines in your area, and even then only use specific routes. If you don't have any approved routes in your area then you will need to get the approval organisied. The engineer who does N. Wales, Mid Wales, North of England and most of the land inbetween lives in N. Yorkshire - he may even do more of the country. Usually a number of outdoor centres will club together to pay to get an approved route in a mine.
As examples, in the Nenthead region "Tyne Bottom" is approved, and there's an approved route in "Smallcleugh". The Smallcleugh route follows the 'Hard Crosscut', right through the flats until you reach the 'Flat Crosscut', through 'Wheel Flats' through 'Hetheringtons' to the 'Ballroom Flat', then return the same way.
As for Mr. Darkplaces, I'd say that it might not be that useful. No doubt the course would give very valuable general information on leading trips underground, but you'd still be prevented from taking (paid) trips into Box, until Box gets approval.
Personally, if I was on my own I'd only really want to take two or three other unexperienced people on a trip. To take a group of six U/G I'd personally like at least one other experienced person to act as 'tail end charlie' and make sure no-one gets lost enroute. (There's a tragic reason why the first sump on the right in Smallcleugh has a waist height rail across the entrance
).
More details can be found
HERE including downloads etc.
One place to gain approval is through our very own Mr. Sparrow by clicking
HERE for more information.
No doubt Andy will be able to clarify all the points I've got wrong above
