Author Topic: AMEX Travel Insurance  (Read 7018 times)

Offline Imo

  • player
  • **
  • Posts: 87
AMEX Travel Insurance
« on: January 10, 2011, 04:18:28 pm »
Just a heads up to people that AMEX now does travel insurance that includes Potholing in itsadventure travel insurance for Medical and repatriation only (no personal injury compensation). You can also get multi trip annual cover up to 120days per trip if you are over 30. It doesn't cover cave diving, canyonong or solo caving (although its advertising says it does cover cave diving- I've written a letter of complaint about that!)


« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 08:14:10 am by bubba, Reason: all caps »


Offline Benfool

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 407
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 03:56:57 pm »
Just phoned them to check a few things out. They will cover original exploration and they will cover self rescue up to a cost of £150,000 which includes flying people out from the UK if nessasery.

For £132 for a years cover its an absolute bargin!

Offline me

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 141
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2011, 10:52:30 am »
£79 for single trip   (not sure which to take out as only planning a single trip at mo & that is a 'maybe' go caving.)  :-\

Offline nickwilliams

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2011, 12:13:09 pm »
Just so people know what's going on, on behalf of BCA I rang AMEX yesterday to discuss this. The lady on the phone was not able to confirm that self rescue would be covered - she said someone would get back to me about this. I pointed out that if BCA are going to recommend the AMEX scheme as covering all the risks we know our members want cover for then we would need something from them in writing to confirm this. I gather that might turn out to be a problem.

I've heard nothing from AMEX as of 24 hours later, but I have also been speaking to Snowcard who seem to have a much better grasp of what we need.

I will report more as soon as I have something definite to say. In the meanwhile, if you are going to buy the AMEX cover for caving I suggest you ring them to confirm that the activity which you are planning will be covered, and make sure you keep notes of who you spoke to and when, and what they said. I'll happily act as an independent repository of those notes if you want to send me an e-mail or a PM recording the conversation.

Nick

(BCA Insurance Manager)

"Economics is simply the branch of sociology that deals with people trading items and the fact that they use more numbers does not make it anymore of a science."

Offline Judi Durber

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2011, 10:15:25 pm »
Nick,

Did you get my PM?
We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life waiting for us.

Offline nickwilliams

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2011, 11:46:07 pm »
Yes, I got the message.

I had a quick look at the site you suggested but could not find any mention of caving insurance. Then I got sidetracked by some paying work and have not had time to go back to it. I'll try to look into it again in the next few days.

I have to say that I don't think BCA is ever going to be in a position where we can vet and comment on every possible provider of travel insurance. I think it's important that we try to ensure that there is at least one provider of insurance who will definitely cover self rescue for expeditions, but it's simply beyond the resources available to us to provide any kind of comprehensive comparison between providers. It also raises an ugly problem of liability if we get it wrong.

Nick.
"Economics is simply the branch of sociology that deals with people trading items and the fact that they use more numbers does not make it anymore of a science."

Offline Rob

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2293
  • The Eldon
    • My Photos
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 08:28:01 am »
Nick, or anyone else, did AMEX ever get back? Be good to have "exploratory caving" written in their official documentation... Also, do you have to be a card holder?
The end is where we start....

Offline Aubrey

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 517
  • Wessex, SWETCCC
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 02:33:36 pm »
I have just looked at the terms and conditions for the AMEX insurance and found caving is in section D which is a list of activities which are specifically excluded.

Has the policy been 'updated' or is caving also in some other section?

make more cave - we have the technology!

Offline Benfool

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 407
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 04:48:27 pm »
Yeah its been updated, just checked the Terms and conditions on my policy - it covers me for Potholing, Caving and Mountineering all of which have been specifically excluded in the new terms and conditions. Looks like that answers your question Rob!

B

Offline And

  • menacing presence
  • **
  • Posts: 218
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 05:46:56 pm »
Endsleigh also do policies that includes caving: http://www.endsleigh.co.uk/Travel/Documents/SingleTripSportsAndActivities.pdf, it's added as the Category 2 Sports and Adventure option. For an annual multi-trip option (incl. USA) for a 31 year old it came up at £191. I'm not sure how that directly compares with others, but it is another option to check out.

Offline chockymike

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 06:44:59 pm »
i use these guy's had two claims for lost stuff with no problems,

http://www.dogtag.co.uk/sports.aspx

Offline Glenn

  • junky
  • ****
  • Posts: 782
  • www.speleo-vercors.org
    • http://www.speleo-vercors.org
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 07:52:23 pm »
i use these guy's had two claims for lost stuff with no problems,

http://www.dogtag.co.uk/sports.aspx

They specifically exclude potholing.

Oh, and claiming for lost stuff is one thing, claiming for a helicopter evacuation as part of a rescue may be quite different...

Offline paul

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4317
  • Orpheus CC, NPC
    • Orpheus Caving Club
Re: AMEX TRAVEL INSURANCE
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 12:20:22 pm »
It is also worth finding out EXACTLY what is covered.

Just because 'Potholing' or 'Caving' are mentioned it doesn't mean you are covered for ALL eventualities.

I know of a caver not being allowed on a chartered flight back home due to an injury suffered whilst caving and having to make alternative arrangements. These were NOT covered by the insurer despite mentioning 'Potholing' or 'Caving' were covered in the Policy.
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline estelle

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
  • GSG & BEC - Everything to Excess!
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2011, 04:14:15 pm »
Are we any closer to recommendations for any insurance company that will cover for original exploratory caving/self rescue and if the sh*t hits the fan, arrange to get rescue assistance brought in? I get the feeling from talking to a few people that snowcard tends to be commonly used, but are people just accepting there is an element of risk that just won't be covered by insurance easily?
What you say about me says more about you than it does about me.

Offline Rob

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2293
  • The Eldon
    • My Photos
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2011, 05:13:08 pm »
Dogtag have recently (this week) changed their website to include caving and potholing in the Extreme cover.  :thumbsup:
The end is where we start....

Offline kay

  • Not a
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2638
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2011, 11:11:52 pm »
Are we any closer to recommendations for any insurance company that will cover for original exploratory caving/self rescue and if the sh*t hits the fan, arrange to get rescue assistance brought in? I get the feeling from talking to a few people that snowcard tends to be commonly used, but are people just accepting there is an element of risk that just won't be covered by insurance easily?

Snowcard cover exploratory caving as category 5, caving in caves that are already known as category 3 (the same category as bolted climbs). The people at Snowcard seem to take an intelligent view of caving. It's worth talking to them.

Offline estelle

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
  • GSG & BEC - Everything to Excess!
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2011, 09:55:52 am »
i suppose the proof of the pudding is in the eating... Has anyone ever claimed on any of these policies and had good or bad experiences?
What you say about me says more about you than it does about me.

Offline Alex

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3873
  • BRCC, UWFRA.
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2011, 04:06:11 pm »
Quote
Dogtag have recently (this week) changed their website to include caving and potholing in the Extreme cover

Probbably because I sent them an e-mail over a month ago saying there was no real difference and why was one covered and the other not. It seems they may have listened, because it cost them £30 as I did not take out cover with them.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Rhys

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1476
  • SWCC, RFDCC
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2011, 06:07:28 pm »
i suppose the proof of the pudding is in the eating... Has anyone ever claimed on any of these policies and had good or bad experiences?

I've never needed to claim for rescue or medical stuff.

I claimed for an accidentally broken camera on a ski trip with Snowcard. They paid straight up no worries. I've used Snowcard for tourist and exploratory caving but never claimed.

Rhys

Offline kay

  • Not a
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2638
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2011, 10:53:22 am »
I've claimed for dentist stuff on Snowcard. Hassle-free and quick payment, even though we delayed for about a month before getting our act together  and sending off the claim. Never needed to claim for rescue or even injury/illness in the outdoors.

Offline estelle

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
  • GSG & BEC - Everything to Excess!
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2011, 05:20:29 pm »
got this reply from Dogtag, sounds good...
Quote
I have checked with underwriters who have explained to me the following:
 
Search and Rescue, can be organised by the party leader and confirmed by the doctors there.  However search and rescue is for emergency rescue, we would not consider, simple sprains, stomach bugs, mild altitude sickness etc..  as cause for evacuation. It is in the event that emergency medical attention is needed, for example- breaks, life threatening illness/severe altitude sickness.
The cost for our Emergency Assistance Service to organise an air ambulance/helicopter/rescue evacuation in this area is most likely not to differ significantly to one organised through a guide/group leader via their own contact/methods. However it is imperative that the assistance company are contacted at the earliest opportunity, once cover is confirmed and it is agreed that the evacuation was medically necessary then a guarantee of payment can be sent.


Therefore, if it is that serious an emergency that a UK based rescue team were required, then yes we would cover it.  This would probably only occur in very extreme circumstances and either way the Emergency Assistance Service would need to be contacted in the first instance as per the policy wordings.
What you say about me says more about you than it does about me.

Offline nickwilliams

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2011, 06:06:09 pm »
I'm very unimpressed by that response, TBH. It strikes me that the need to contact the assistance service in order to 'authorise' the rescue before making a commitment to proceed has a very real potential to introduce an unacceptable delay in the progress of the rescue.

Rescuers will always be in a better position to decide how a rescue should be effected than an insurance company, and if the insurers don't trust the insured to judge whether a situation is serious enough to require a rescue then they should reserve the right to refuse cover after the fact rather than make it a condition of cover that the costs are authorised in advance.

Please put Dogtag in touch with me directly if you want me to argue with them about this.

Nick.
"Economics is simply the branch of sociology that deals with people trading items and the fact that they use more numbers does not make it anymore of a science."

Offline estelle

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
  • GSG & BEC - Everything to Excess!
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2011, 06:12:30 pm »
i'll forward their email to you...
What you say about me says more about you than it does about me.

Offline estelle

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 473
  • GSG & BEC - Everything to Excess!
Re: AMEX Travel Insurance
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2011, 12:21:19 pm »
and snowcard's reply...
Quote
Dear Estelle,

Many thanks for your email.

In areas where there is no established cave rescue authority, in the first instance any team would be responsible for its own rescue. In a remote area, should it be necessary because of the situation, the policy would help cover the expenses of flying a rescue expert to a region to assist. Having said this, you must be aware of the limitations of available resources. The insurance will only cover the reasonable costs incurred in paying for rescue expenses, we do not handle or manage the organisation of a rescue team or make any guarantee that an expert would be available to assist. Insurance covers certain expenses incurred from an emergency but an expedition team are responsible for having their own resources to manage the situation.

Any expedition to a remote region must have an adequate emergency plan in place in terms of organising a rescue should a serious event occur. If you are unsure about this you should refer to the expedition organisers for reassurance.

In practice, we have not had a claim for an expedition where self rescue has not been possible. Generally speaking we only become involved once an injured party has been moved to a hospital. Our typical expenses include hospital and treatment expenses and the costs of flying the injured party home. Actual cave rescue expenses are rarely involved because of the inherent self rescue capability of caving teams who already have the expertise on site to deal with emergencies. Outside help is not normally needed other than ambulance transfer to hospital and possible helicopter lifts.

I hope this helps answer your query, but let me know if I can comment further. I would add that our online categorisations were put together with the help of the BCA who suggested these differentiations to us.

With kind regards

Russell Dadson

Snowcard
What you say about me says more about you than it does about me.