Author Topic: Daleswear to close  (Read 11954 times)

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2015, 12:20:42 pm »
If I recall correctly the last of the Petzl suits retailed for about £75 about twenty years ago (something like that). So by today's prices we would be paying about £250 for an oversuit. If there was an oversuit available of good enough quality I think keen cavers would be prepared pay £250 for it.

I've got an old Daleswear catalogue, no date, but the phone numbers are pre "PhONEday", April 1995. Will also have been after I moved back up North in 1990.

on-line inflation calculator
says that £100 in 1993 is £184.93 today

AFI = "adjusted for inflation"

Kingsdale Oversuit: £45, AFI: £83.25, now £70
Standard Oversuit: £38
Kinsgsdale Undersuit: £38, AFI: £70.30, now £65

Also an Inglesport one, of similar vintage:

Petzl Ecrin Helmet: £27.55, AFI: £50.96, no loger available, Vertex Vent: £67.50
Petzl Stop: £31.50, AFI: £58.27, now: £81
Static rope, 11mm about £1.50 / m, now still £1.50 / m

Oversuits, about £65
Undersuits: £30 to £40

Some things are cheaper, some Petzl stuff is much more expensive. As for lighting, there is no way you can compare carbide / Oldham / FX2 with today's LEDs.

OK I was a long way out on my very quick guess at the relative cost of an oversuit. However, it is not as simple as Alan suggests. You have to compare the cost of caving with disposable income. Average disposable income may not have risen quite as much over the last twenty years but over the last forty years it has risen hugely and people's ability to afford caving gear has increased enormously.

Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2015, 12:42:13 pm »
Quote
We hear things like that all the time but we "have never had it so good". We live in a very affluent country in affluent times and caving gear has never been cheaper in proportion to disposable income

That may be the case for you Simon, but i can 100% assure you it isnt the case for most!!  :o

Every day I visit the homes of people who live in posh detached houses, people who work for the minimum wage and live in poor quality housing,  drug addicts, some of the most underprivileged and needy and all sorts in between. I have also travelled widely in the World.

Most people in this country are very affluent indeed. Many people who I hear complain about their standard of living would benefit by experiencing the standard of living that the vast majority in this World have and hopefully a few of them might stop winging.

Offline jasonbirder

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2015, 05:45:49 pm »
Quote
Most people in this country are very affluent indeed. Many people who I hear complain about their standard of living would benefit by experiencing the standard of living that the vast majority in this World have and hopefully a few of them might stop winging.

Because the standard of living of a caver based in Yorkshire compared to the standard of living of a Toureg tribesman has alot of bearing on whether he buys his caving kit in a shop as opposed to online!

Offline Bottlebank

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2015, 06:10:23 pm »
I don't think there's much doubt the average UK caver has a lot more disposable income than thirty or forty years ago but skint cavers will always feel skint!
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Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2015, 06:17:14 pm »
Most people in this country are very affluent indeed. Many people who I hear complain about their standard of living would benefit by experiencing the standard of living that the vast majority in this World have and hopefully a few of them might stop winging.

 :clap2:

There is quite a difference between poverty and 'relative poverty'.

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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2015, 08:12:01 pm »
Few would disagree that it's not difficult to find others far less fortunate than ourselves.

But I'm not sure that's what this topic is about   :shrug:

Offline bograt

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2015, 09:56:54 pm »
the standard of living of a Toureg tribesman has alot of bearing on whether he buys his caving kit in a shop as opposed to online!

Err, why would a Toureg tribesman want caving gear, and how would he get online anyway?  :-\ :-\

I would, however like to disagree with Simons blinkered view about relative affluence in the U.K., I, for one have never been worse off!, my 'disposable income' is in negative figures thanks to recent government (and banking) policies. ------- :furious:

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Offline Simon Wilson

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2015, 10:37:46 pm »
Well maybe I have gone off topic. I thought that Chris was suggesting that a high cost of living and people economising was a factor in Daleswear closing when he said,

The costs of living are so eye-watering that pretty nearly everyone is forced to buy on price, though.

Possibly I misunderstood him.

I think Daleswear could have survived as a manufacturer of budget caving clothing and bags if they hadn't taken the path they did into general outdoor retailing. But to survive as a manufacturer would have been very difficult set against the decline in numbers of people caving and competition for Eastern Europe.

Offline Over the Hill

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2015, 10:48:17 pm »
Being there I still enjoy recalling some 30 plus years ago Alan Steele saying to a customer in Inglesport who insisted on buying static rope for cows tails. "The customer is always right but in this case you fecking wrong". Needles to say more he went away without the static rope but a possible life saved. As for Tom closing Daleswear I recall another bit of advice as told to me by the still missed Roy Mundy. "On the ladder of life if you fall off the bottom step expect to twist an ankle but fall off the top step you will more likely break your Fecking neck.

Shame to loose jobs in the area though, earning a living in the greater village area is hard work speaking from past experience.

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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2018, 01:06:22 pm »
Just going back to this topic from 3 years ago - someone mentioned that Daleswear is still operating from somewhere but only as an online retailer. Anyone know if this is the case and / or what the web address is?

A quick Google search hasn't thrown up any sites (that work).

Offline Over the Hill

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2018, 01:20:03 pm »
Was only yesterday talking to Jack Pickup as I passed though Jangletown. Apparently Tom Lambert is now a fully fledged member of the Grumpy club / table at Bernies so pop in and ask him.   :coffee:
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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2018, 06:04:05 pm »
 :lol:   :thumbsup:

Offline Hammy

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2018, 06:22:30 pm »
Just going back to this topic from 3 years ago - someone mentioned that Daleswear is still operating from somewhere but only as an online retailer. Anyone know if this is the case and / or what the web address is?

A quick Google search hasn't thrown up any sites (that work).

My sources are not particularly reputable but I have been led to believe that this business may have the original Daleswear patterns...

https://www.mountain-method.co.uk




Offline yrammy

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2018, 10:21:22 am »
I have a fleece that I bought at Daleswear at least 25 years ago. It is still going stong and has been wasked countless times. Unlike much stuff today it was made to last - and that probably contributes to the downfall of good local manufacturers. We live in the chuck it out society.
Mary

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2018, 06:57:59 pm »
Thanks Hammy - I note they also make Ventile garments. I have a Ventile jacket which I treated myself to a long time ago (expensively). It's a superb material and probably the most comfortable thing I've worn in the British climate (i.e. mainly mild and wet - in conditions where Goretex etc just doesn't do what it supposed to).

Offline Andy Sparrow

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2018, 12:06:57 pm »
Tis a shame but must be very difficult for independent stores to compete with the Go Outdoors and the internet

Especially when they don't encourage customer loyalty - refusing to discount to cavers for example (when Cotswold etc all do) etc.

10% discount equals 30% loss of profit.  It's tough enough for small retailers without giving away a significant chunk of what they make, and not helped by TV 'personalities' encouraging people to ask 'small independent traders' for discounts.
Andy Sparrow



Offline Cave_Troll

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2018, 12:20:26 pm »
whats the point in having a list price if you're then going to "discount" it for cavers.. and presumably "walkers" or "climbers"

Offline moorebooks

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2018, 02:28:41 pm »
Tis a shame but must be very difficult for independent stores to compete with the Go Outdoors and the internet

Especially when they don't encourage customer loyalty - refusing to discount to cavers for example (when Cotswold etc all do) etc.

10% discount equals 30% loss of profit.  It's tough enough for small retailers without giving away a significant chunk of what they make, and not helped by TV 'personalities' encouraging people to ask 'small independent traders' for discounts.

I run an entirely internet business and apart from main conferences operate the business from home.To be honest the margins on new books and items wouldn't really support the overheads of a shop. The business rates are bad enough, but rent if you don't own,  the building insurance , services and credit card facilities which depending on your deal can eat up to 3%. I appreciate Inglesport and the like have a wide range of items and it is a little easier to operate a mixed business however  the margins are very tight  for them , they are working to make a living not a charitable exercise for the caving community.  The old adage applies though use it or lose it , you might be able to get some items from Go Outdoors with a discount but the rest of it with the excellent advice you can't . Without the bread and butter items a shop will not survive in todays market.

Mike

Offline mikem

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2018, 06:45:20 am »
Just going back to this topic from 3 years ago - someone mentioned that Daleswear is still operating from somewhere but only as an online retailer. Anyone know if this is the case and / or what the web address is?

A quick Google search hasn't thrown up any sites (that work).
Not sure you're looking for their latest products:
http://nwconnected.co.uk/ingleton-business-set-global-shewee-success/

Mike
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 07:02:47 am by mikem »

Offline Over the Hill

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Re: Daleswear to close
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2018, 08:30:55 am »
You really are taking the piss  :coffee:
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