Author Topic: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?  (Read 11166 times)

Offline Wayland Smith

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2015, 11:23:27 am »
So you're against transparent access agreements?

 :wall: The access agreement is as transparent as it is possible to get.
There is NO access!
The owners have closed it!
How many times do you need telling?

Offline ah147

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2015, 11:35:11 am »

keeps it away from those with an agenda

Certainly seems you're against transparent access agreements...

There is access to the system. Maybe not to the tunnel itself, though Id tend to disagree based on recent activities in there.

There's an agreement in place for this access. However limited it is. Having this agreement in the open encourages people to comply, rather than break in. Though those who put this system in place etc deserve nothing but thanks in my opinion.

My problem comes in the secrecy surrounding this agreement. "Oh there's an agreement but we won't tell you" just says to me "well, let's go in anyway, cos we won't get in properly"

If you need to be on a working party, say so, if you need to get in touch with someone, say so. Say what information they need and what hoops you need to jump through.

Adding a layer of secrecy just serves to alienate more people who will just do what they want anyway. Ruining the hard work to gain official access, however limited.

One of the most sensitive sites I know of, is Boreham Cave. How do you get access? Well you join the CDG, qualify and join one of the four organised trips per year. Not exactly open access, but very few problems, cos everyone knows exactly what they need to do to keep access to the place!


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Offline ah147

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2015, 11:36:44 am »

So you're against transparent access agreements?

 :wall: The access agreement is as transparent as it is possible to get.
There is NO access!
The owners have closed it!
How many times do you need telling?

Except there is! Through the shaft. There was a trip in there, all official and everything, last month! With another planned in the very near future.


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Offline Carter

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2015, 11:58:14 am »
The details we would ask for were name and address and they were for our records which we keep as part of our legitimate access agreement with the two controlling bodies. There are to be available for inspection at all times.

 I've had no pm about it I thought I'd post that here to quell any conspiracy theories .

sorry if there is a bit of confusion about the situation. We have been able to lead trips into the system again for nearly two years now and the feedback we received  has been good.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 12:10:21 pm by Carter »

Offline ah147

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2015, 01:38:51 pm »
Absolutely nothing out the ordinary that you don't have to provide for some "free for all" caves.

Cheers Nick!

Again, your hard works appreciated!


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Online cavemanmike

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2015, 02:40:19 pm »
legitimate access agreement with the two controlling bodies. .

 hi nick
 out of interest who are the "two controlling bodies " you have a legitimate access agreement with
 
cheers

Offline Carter

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2015, 07:56:58 pm »
Is that you mike . L . ?

Offline Wayland Smith

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2015, 08:14:28 pm »
It should be simple to work out the  "two controlling bodies "
They have been mentioned on here many times in discussion.
HINT  They are not caving clubs.

I leave it for someone from GCC to answer (if they wish.)  :coffee:

Offline Martymarty

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2016, 10:13:59 am »
Well just thought I would re open this old thread and let you all know a few friends and I have done the through trip from Rhyd alyn mine to the portal and we had sooo much fun ..you should all try it ...video to follow!

Regards

Marty

Offline Martymarty

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2018, 06:36:09 pm »

Offline ChrisJC

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2018, 10:23:36 pm »
Nice one. I'm impressed you could make it a through trip, I thought you'd have a 7 mile flog back up the tunnel against the flow, then the 35 ladder ascent!

Chris.
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Offline Martymarty

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2018, 12:15:37 pm »
To be fair Chris its been all hype for years ..it was a doddle really.

Offline rhychydwr1

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2018, 01:06:38 pm »
Many more videos on Youtube


Offline Disgusted from Cornwall.

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2018, 04:18:51 pm »
I am very keen on coming up from Cornwall and meeting the sorts of people we saw in the boat-through-trip video. These people are just like us and it's like a tribe apart. This is what "going down holes" is about.

Having read about the nonsense of GCC and the filling of the access tunnel to OG Shaft, I thought "we may as well come up and break in" (to avoid this nonsense). Having seen the other side of the coin and realising the spirit and "similarities" with these chaps, it would be rude not to touch base and share tales/epic stories. Likewise, everyone with a half decent attitude is always welcome down here on "our" trips.

 :beer2:

Offline royfellows

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2018, 05:35:31 pm »
So why dont you come up and see Cwmystwyth by personal invite of the owner?

or [being devilish] are you scared of seeing what  'admin' and legal manoeuvring can sometimes achieve?
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline Disgusted from Cornwall.

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2018, 07:25:01 pm »
You know me Roy, I am a bit of a troll!

At some point, it would be good to get "up north" a bit. I've got a bit more of a mile muncher wagon now and hopefully, in due course can plan some days off in a row!

Offline royfellows

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2018, 09:25:34 pm »
You know me Roy, I am a bit of a troll!

At some point, it would be good to get "up north" a bit. I've got a bit more of a mile muncher wagon now and hopefully, in due course can plan some days off in a row!

Make it a date for NAMHO 2019, and bring all of your friends from CBC
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline 2xw

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2018, 12:49:28 pm »
You know me Roy, I am a bit of a troll!

At some point, it would be good to get "up north" a bit. I've got a bit more of a mile muncher wagon now and hopefully, in due course can plan some days off in a row!

I thought the CBC didn't recognise the rest of the UK as a caving area? Have you got bored of Cornwall's three trips?  ;D

Offline royfellows

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2018, 01:33:49 pm »
Hey, there's at least five
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline Wayland Smith

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2018, 03:19:30 pm »
Careful Roy!

Once they see the bright lights of Aberystwyth
there will be no getting them back home!  ;D

Offline Dave Tyson

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2018, 01:08:49 pm »
Just a quick heads up on access. Martin Downing, the Mine Manager working for Wardell Armstrong on belhalf of United Utilities has posted a note about access to Caeau Shaft the downstream section of the Milwr Tunnel from Pen y Bryn Shaft to the portal on the aditnow site. There has been work going on there for some time and this will continue till the end of 2018 and this area is designed as a working mine. Since the publication of the video of the through trip there is concern that people would be encouraged to repeat it - Don't! His message is below:

"As some of you will know, the HSE has the view ‘that once a mine, always a mine’ and therefore as soon as we start any work on the tunnel, it has to be designated as a working mine. For the duration of the current works, the extent of the ‘mine’ (as notified to the HSE) extends from Pen y Bryn Shaft to the portal. Prior to starting the works we contacted Grosvenor CC, NWCC and UCET in order to inform them of this and that there should be no caver access downstream of Pen y Bryn Shaft – this is also as per an agreement with Grosvenor CC. Unfortunately, the posting of the video of the 2016 through trip on UK Caving has rekindled interest, hence this post to clarify matters and provide some further information.

We would therefore re-iterate that, for the duration of the works (until the end of 2018) there should be no access by cavers downstream of Pen y Bryn Shaft. In any event, the portal is located on private property and there is no agreement for cavers to exit the tunnel here. The area is securely fenced and any damage to the fence, gate or locks could be considered as criminal damage.

The potential hazards of entering the tunnel should also not be under-estimated. Water flows in the tunnel average about 1m3/sec and water levels can rise quickly following rainfall. Walking against the flow for any significant distance can then be very arduous, and impossible in some conditions. There are points in the tunnel where falls have occurred, which have the potential for further collapse and other points where the water can back up to the roof. At worst you could find yourself not being able to proceed downstream with retreat being very long and difficult, if not impossible, back upstream.

There has been mention of the high radon levels in the tunnel. Although levels vary significantly due to the effect of weather conditions on the ventilation in the mine, we have measured naturally occurring radon concentrations up to 40,000 Bq/m3. In terms of dose this is equivalent to approximately 1mSv per day spent underground. To put this in context, the average annual radiation dose in the UK is 2.7mSv and the annual dose limit for a radiation worker in the UK is 20mSv. As such, when undertaking inspections or work in the tunnel, we install ventilation fans that dilute the radon in the working area and also put the tunnel under positive pressure in order to reduce the flow of radon from the old workings. A result of this, however, is that radon concentrations further upstream in the tunnel may be increased over ‘normal’ levels.

The current team have been inspecting and repairing the tunnel since 2010 and so have developed a keen interest in it. We are happy to work with the caving community but it must be appreciated that access to the tunnel must be undertaken responsibly. The repair works are to ensure the stability of the tunnel and the continued free flow of water out of the tunnel. The works are, therefore, of benefit to all and we would therefore ask for you co-operation.

Many thanks
Martin Downing"

Dave

Offline Greg Jones

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Re: Milwr Tunnel:- Current state of play?
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2018, 06:03:10 pm »
Thanks for the info Dave. That all sounds very fair to me.
Renegade!