Author Topic: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue  (Read 3293 times)

Offline tony from suffolk

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2017, 08:49:14 am »
At least the Fire Service said Cave Rescue released him:
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/teenager-rescued-after-getting-trapped-281134

Mike
Good to see the fire brigade got their hoses out. Did they expel the poor lad using water pressure?
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Offline alastairgott

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2017, 06:57:31 pm »

total brain fart last night, sorry! don't know where I was going.



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Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2017, 07:20:29 pm »
 "Boy trapped in Burrington Coombe caves for three hours after trying to squeeze through rocks like 'Superman' "

And I thought I was " Superman " !

Perhaps his cape got caught on a rock.   :lol:  Apparently it was an outward bound course. I wonder who the cave instructor was ?

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2017, 07:22:02 pm »
I shall find out tomorrow. A nice crispy tenner in the post will buy my silence  :clap2:

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 03:27:51 pm »
Digging today so the whole story told. A very large gentleman got stuck in " Superman Squeeze " ( which can be avoided ) in Goatchurch. He was released by the MRO by drilling and plug and feathers. It all seemed avoidable and fairly straight forward.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2017, 07:57:32 pm »
Mildly misleading though TOR; I heard that the leader told the VLG not to go that way and to instead use a side detour but VLG decided to follow his mate(s). Therefore, although avoidable, it wasn't avoided but we can fairly presume who has the egg on face for the unwise decision.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2017, 10:12:26 am »
Rightly so oh wise one. :bow: But if this was a novice outward bound exercise where was the duty of care regarding the VLG ? He would have been far better looked after over at
" Wild Wookey ".


Offline andrewmc

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2017, 10:19:57 am »
If people don't very occasionally end up in a spot of mild bother on this sort of course then they aren't doing them right - they are 'adventure' courses not 'absolutely no risk' courses. Goatchurch is hardly an excessively dangerous cave for novices...

Offline Roger W

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2017, 10:28:21 am »
Should people going on that sort of course be made to go through a hoop or ring of the appropriate size to check that they are not too large to get through the tight bits before being allowed down the cave?

"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline al

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2017, 10:38:24 am »
Should people going on that sort of course be made to go through a hoop or ring of the appropriate size to check that they are not too large to get through the tight bits before being allowed down the cave?

I usually carry a large tub of grease (as used on boat oars, and cross-channel swimmers) for my VLGs (also known as LTOGs, by the way). Can be applied before or during the trip, as required, or sometimes as a deterrent. No need for plugs - but feathers can sometimes be used to great effect.
Old ... but not old enough to know any better

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2017, 11:05:51 am »
If people don't very occasionally end up in a spot of mild bother on this sort of course then they aren't doing them right - they are 'adventure' courses not 'absolutely no risk' courses. Goatchurch is hardly an excessively dangerous cave for novices...

Maybe but the damage done to the reputation of caving is far reaching. Perhaps such caving " adventures " should be contained within the realm of such professionally run enterprises like " Wild Wookey " and " Wet Wellies " where we have excellent instructors both of which I know well. Lord knows what litigation would have arisen if the VLG had suffered a trauma of any sort. Well presumably " Superman Squeeze " is now passable for even the medically obese.

Offline Duncan Price

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2017, 11:38:46 am »
I usually carry a large tub of grease (as used on boat oars, and cross-channel swimmers) for my VLGs (also known as LTOGs, by the way). Can be applied before or during the trip, as required, or sometimes as a deterrent. No need for plugs - but feathers can sometimes be used to great effect.

The Fire & Rescue personnel did ask whether smearing the casualty with washing up liquid would help...

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2017, 11:45:50 am »
It rather depends on whether the "client" had chosen to go on the trip and made the decision himself to go for the tight section. 

I remember a very sad event some years ago involving, I think, a firm's "bonding weekend" where the group were taken caving and were "required" to go, even though some had no interest and others actually very nervous about the idea.  One gentleman, who was rather overweight, not at all an "active" type and really didn't want to go caving, got into difficulties in the Letterbox slot on the route from Calf Holes to Browgill.  He became extremely distressed, suffered a heart attack and died in the cave.  His daughter subsequently contacted NCA to ask for help in avoiding this ever happening to anyone else, saying that he had told her that he didn't want to go caving but felt he couldn't back out because it was organised by his firm.  Under the circumstances he hadn't said anything to the instructor prior to the trip to indicate that he wasn't happy.

It's to be hoped that any instructors dealing with a group like this are extremely careful to ensure that those involved actually do, themselves, want to try caving and are given a chance to opt out if they don't want to do it.

Offline Roger W

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2017, 12:21:36 pm »
I'll second that, Jenny.

I've been on management training courses where the participants have been put through various outdoor exercises involving activities that some of them were not at all happy about doing.  But the nature of the exercise - peer pressure and the need to prove that you had the leadership potential (?) - made it almost impossible to admit any misgivings, let alone back out.
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline martinr

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2017, 01:32:54 pm »
Should people going on that sort of course be made to go through a hoop or ring of the appropriate size to check that they are not too large to get through the tight bits before being allowed down the cave?

MCG had a squeeze box made to the dimensions of the tightest squeeze in Upper Flood Swallet as shown in these photos by Biff Frith. (Rather amazingly,  2 of the women at HE 2007 managed it together side-by-side)

Offline Roger W

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2017, 05:43:10 pm »
 :clap2:

But could they get their hips through?
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline martinr

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2017, 08:12:31 pm »
:clap2:

But could they get their hips through?

Yes!

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2017, 09:15:08 pm »
Quote
A very large gentleman got stuck in " Superman Squeeze "
Hmmm... so it wasn't Clark Kent's alter ego then and therefore there's no point in applying for a licence to mine a newly found Kryptonite vein?
Lex Luther.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2017, 09:59:48 pm »

Offline And

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2017, 02:02:19 pm »
I hope the experience hasn't put the young chap off caving. If it was his choice to do the squeeze, then he certainly has a caver's mentality to push himself physically and mentally to explore.

I'm surprised at the criticism on him/the leader coming from other "cavers". Mishaps and misjudgments are very rare, but occasionally they happen - similar things have happened to experienced cavers in the past.

Offline Maj

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2017, 04:26:31 pm »
Should people going on that sort of course be made to go through a hoop or ring of the appropriate size to check that they are not too large to get through the tight bits before being allowed down the cave?

What size would you make it? There are parts of Goatchurch I don't fit through. Or do you have a hoop sized for each obstacle? Oh yes and same shape as each of the slightly more restricted parts of the cave, since caver shape will make a difference too. Perhaps join all the hoops together in the correct relationship to one an other.....hold on a minute, we're building a replica artificial cave..........................    Hmmmm!

Maj.
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Offline Maj

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2017, 04:35:40 pm »
Perhaps such caving " adventures " should be contained within the realm of such professionally run enterprises like " Wild Wookey " and " Wet Wellies " where we have excellent instructors both of which I know well.


Are you suggesting that the activity centre is not professionally run and the instructors there aren't excellent?

Just asking.

Maj.
Confucius say "War does not determine who is right, war determine who is left."

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2017, 05:49:08 pm »
Should people going on that sort of course be made to go through a hoop or ring of the appropriate size to check that they are not too large to get through the tight bits before being allowed down the cave?

What size would you make it? There are parts of Goatchurch I don't fit through. Or do you have a hoop sized for each obstacle?

Obviously it should be the short very tight tube that bypasses the first part of Hellish Tight (and is quite a bit smaller). Then only me, a very small fraction of boys and a still small but larger fraction of girls would be able to fit (plus a load of children I guess but you can't have everything). If you can't fit through that then you can only go in the big entrance to the bottom of the old showcave steps otherwise you might accidentally or foolishly get stuck in a tight bit...

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2017, 07:58:18 pm »
Perhaps such caving " adventures " should be contained within the realm of such professionally run enterprises like " Wild Wookey " and " Wet Wellies " where we have excellent instructors both of which I know well.


Are you suggesting that the activity centre is not professionally run and the instructors there aren't excellent?

Just asking.

Maj.

Of course not. I am saying only what I know and nothing about what I dont know. Call it hypothetical if you like .

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Another Overstated Mendip Cave Rescue
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2017, 12:08:18 am »
Should people going on that sort of course be made to go through a hoop or ring of the appropriate size to check that they are not too large to get through the tight bits before being allowed down the cave?

What size would you make it? There are parts of Goatchurch I don't fit through. Or do you have a hoop sized for each obstacle?

Obviously it should be the short very tight tube that bypasses the first part of Hellish Tight (and is quite a bit smaller). Then only me, a very small fraction of boys and a still small but larger fraction of girls would be able to fit (plus a load of children I guess but you can't have everything). If you can't fit through that then you can only go in the big entrance to the bottom of the old showcave steps otherwise you might accidentally or foolishly get stuck in a tight bit...

You could save yourself the hassle by just making people promise not to get stuck! :idea: