Author Topic: "Level 1" caves  (Read 1675 times)

Online JoshW

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"Level 1" caves
« on: June 08, 2018, 01:06:46 pm »
Hi All,

wondering if anyone has got a reasonable list of caves/parts of caves that would be considered LCMLA level 1 (i.e. no pitches).

I've got the yorkshire dales guidebook that came out a couple of years (but it's currently the other side of the world) and to save having to read it cover to cover, some hints and tips would be gratefully received.

Cheers all!

Offline David Rose

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2018, 01:08:49 pm »
No pitches in Mossdale Caverns.

Online Alex

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2018, 01:18:12 pm »
Well if it was not for the fact you can down horribly in there, it would only be a grade 3 cave in my opinion.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2018, 03:52:23 pm »
Hi Josh,

Ignore them: David is trolling and Alex is confusing cave grading with the award scheme.

Half decent L1 sites off the top of my head in no particular order might include:
Old Ing, Yordas (main chamber), Sunset Hole to the pitch, Long Churn (parts), Kingsdale Valley Entrance to pitch, Mistral, Browgill.

Perhaps a locally based instructor would care to provide a more definitive/comprehensive opinion.

Online 2xw

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2018, 04:09:18 pm »
Depends whether you want caves that are level 1 or just the caves that instructors use most, some easy ones to add (although caveat is that I haven't done the qualifications thing in about a half decade so might be wrong on some...)

Sunset
Great Douk
Valley Entrance (to the pitch)
Yordas
Thistle and Runscar
Longchurn (pretty sure you can imagine which bits are LCMLA1 or not...)

I'm sure there's a few more that folks use.

Online JoshW

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2018, 04:38:42 pm »
Hi Josh,

Ignore them: David is trolling and Alex is confusing cave grading with the award scheme.

Half decent L1 sites off the top of my head in no particular order might include:
Old Ing, Yordas (main chamber), Sunset Hole to the pitch, Long Churn (parts), Kingsdale Valley Entrance to pitch, Mistral, Browgill.

Perhaps a locally based instructor would care to provide a more definitive/comprehensive opinion.

Cheers Chris. Guessed re the trolling, and figured the cave grading vs award scheme.

Thanks for the info, done a few of those, but got a few more I should try and get to.

Depends whether you want caves that are level 1 or just the caves that instructors use most, some easy ones to add (although caveat is that I haven't done the qualifications thing in about a half decade so might be wrong on some...)

Sunset
Great Douk
Valley Entrance (to the pitch)
Yordas
Thistle and Runscar
Longchurn (pretty sure you can imagine which bits are LCMLA1 or not...)

I'm sure there's a few more that folks use.

Thanks 2xw, good info there. Will check out those I've not done :)

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2018, 04:54:52 pm »
Would Hardrawkin Pot to the Pitch fit?  also going up stream is High Douk Holes which is very friendly.

I don't know what an Award Level 1 cave is though.

Offline Fulk

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2018, 05:25:12 pm »
A bit further afield is Crackpot Cave in Swaledale.

Ibbeth Peril Cave in Dentdale (if you keep a close eye on the weather . . . several years ago an 'instructed party' got trapped by floods overnight).

Offline Pete K

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2018, 08:37:33 pm »
Hi Josh. Graham Derbyshire is the LCMLA trainer/assessor panel rep for that region. Find his email on the BCA training pages and he or one of the other T/As in the area will send you a list I'm sure. All regions maintain a list AFAIK.

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2018, 09:03:33 pm »
Well if it was not for the fact you can down horribly in there, it would only be a grade 3 cave in my opinion.

With all due respect Alex, you've seen too little of Mossdale's varying moods to be saying something like that.   

Online Alex

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2018, 10:15:03 am »
I was of course meaning when the weather is dry. But you have to admit the cave itself has nothing particularly hard in it though, I can't think of any part of that cave I would dread doing compared to some, Lancliffe was far harder beyond the mid point. If Mossdale did not have the threat of death and was not such an uneasy (spooky, I definitely felt it in Marathon) place at times, may be it would be grade 4 without the water, due to looseness in places too. But based on the pure physical aspects of it which I admit can be tiring can you think of anything that is particularly difficult?

Anyway back on topic. The caves of Howstean and Nidderdale such as Goyden would be suitable to take beginners around. However in Goyden be careful, that cave can and does fill to the roof in heavy rain.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline David Rose

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2018, 10:27:40 am »
Mossdale was meant to be an attempt at humour, not trolling. Obviously it is a very serious place, though it has a deep allure, as Simon has shown in his fascinating blogs.

No one seems to have mentioned Calf Holes - Browgill. I know there is a pitch, but it's short and easy, and having taken all my kids there at various times, I can say with confidence it is an excellent novice trip. 

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2018, 11:15:04 am »
I admit I don't know the criteria, but if a vertical section is a non starter, Calf Holes would be a short trip and Browgill not much longer if the pitch bypass is deemed a vertical section?

If you are up at that section Old Ing would be more suitable I would have thought?




Online nobrotson

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2018, 11:44:16 am »
No one seems to have mentioned Calf Holes - Browgill. I know there is a pitch, but it's short and easy, and having taken all my kids there at various times, I can say with confidence it is an excellent novice trip.

LCMLA 1 leaders are not permitted to take clients on roped vertical cave passage, you need level 2 for that.
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Online JoshW

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2018, 11:46:29 am »
Hi Josh. Graham Derbyshire is the LCMLA trainer/assessor panel rep for that region. Find his email on the BCA training pages and he or one of the other T/As in the area will send you a list I'm sure. All regions maintain a list AFAIK.

Thanks Pete, good shout. If I get a list, I can stick it up here for future reference.

Offline Simon Beck

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2018, 12:02:04 pm »
I was of course meaning when the weather is dry. But you have to admit the cave itself has nothing particularly hard in it though, I can't think of any part of that cave I would dread doing compared to some, Lancliffe was far harder beyond the mid point. If Mossdale did not have the threat of death and was not such an uneasy (spooky, I definitely felt it in Marathon) place at times, may be it would be grade 4 without the water, due to looseness in places too. But based on the pure physical aspects of it which I admit can be tiring can you think of anything that is particularly difficult?

Anyway back on topic. The caves of Howstean and Nidderdale such as Goyden would be suitable to take beginners around. However in Goyden be careful, that cave can and does fill to the roof in heavy rain.

Look I don't wanna sound like I'm having a go, which I'm not, but just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it is for everybody else. Mossdale is what it is, so why predict something that's it's not. I did a sporting trip with friends yesterday, which would be classed in the top grade, yet afterwards I didn't even feel like I'd done anything, compared to how I would feel after a few hours spent down Ouroborous.

Apologies about the off topic nature.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 12:13:28 pm by Simon Beck »

Offline glyders

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Re: "Level 1" caves
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2018, 05:19:09 pm »
I admit I don't know the criteria, but if a vertical section is a non starter, Calf Holes would be a short trip and Browgill not much longer if the pitch bypass is deemed a vertical section?
If you are up at that section Old Ing would be more suitable I would have thought?

Old Ing is a great Level 1 cave.

The distinction between 1 and 2 is whether abseil/ladder would normally be deemed necessary. Browgill-Calf Holes is fine as a L1 cave (it was on my ticket as such until I got my Level 2 Award and added the pitches). The inner pitch bypass is scrambling, with belay/handline if deemed necessary for the group.
Actually, the right of the waterfall on the inner pitch is climbable, and I was asked to rope someone up it on my L1 skills assessment.

Would Hardrawkin Pot to the Pitch fit?  also going up stream is High Douk Holes which is very friendly.

Both would fit. Could easily be combined in a day with Middle Washfold-Great Douk.


Other ones from when I had L1 (avoiding any pitches, of course):
Wilson's Cave
Borrins Moor Cave
Upper and Lower Long Churns
Valley Entrance
Yordas
Birkwith Cave
Sunset Hole
Thistle and Runscar Caves
Gunnerfleet Cave

 

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