Author Topic: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??  (Read 2218 times)

Offline Pegasus

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Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« on: June 27, 2019, 12:54:28 pm »



 

Yesterday, Hellie Adams attended the Sport and Recreation Alliance Summer drinks reception at Westminster where they were launching a new campaign about getting young people into sport to combat obesity.
There were 70+ people in attendance, though Hellie being under 40 and female was a minority in the room. Having listened to a range of speeches, our BCA representative was able to meet with various MP’s including David Rutley who went caving in 2016 with fellow MP, David Davis, Tim Allen (BCA CROW Officer at the time) +a team of cavers down Gaping Ghyll to Main Chamber.

(Details of the trip here: https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19574.0)

David Rutley MP remembered his trip and the reason for it – to highlight the CROW campaign – great to see access is still on his mind.
Tom Watson Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, also made a speech and met with Hellie afterwards where he agreed to go caving. Mr Watson has been taking part in a variety of challenges so we hope to arrange to take him to explore the wonders of the underground soon.
Thank you to Hellie for making the long journey to the capital, queuing for hours to get past protesters and finally making it to the reception. Hellie summarised ‘I had some great discussions with a variety of people and hope BCA can be more involved in this project in the future’.
‘As cavers we know the benefits both physically and mentally of caving as it’s great exercise with team spirit and a strong social scene. The BCA are keen to encourage younger folks into our sport and hope to do our bit to combat childhood obesity’

Offline BCA Secretary

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2019, 02:14:10 pm »
Outstanding! Thank you Hellie for taking the time to go down to London to raise awareness of caving and to represent the BCA  :clap2:

With the ongoing CRoW campaign and a general push to raise awareness and interest in caving particularly among younger folks, ensuring we have representation at these kinds of events is really important.

Offline mrodoc

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2019, 03:27:28 pm »
He'll fit in more holes now!

Offline mrodoc

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2019, 03:29:10 pm »
And with a more partisan comment, nice to see the BEC again being represented nationally.

Offline Caver Keith

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2019, 06:49:06 pm »
As Tom is MP for West Bromwich East he's welcome to pop along to his local caving club, Dudley, anytime.

Offline mch

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2019, 10:18:08 am »
Hopefully, in view of Watson's continued scurrilous attempts to undermine the elected leader of his party, most caving clubs won't touch him with a bargepole!

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2019, 12:02:18 pm »
Hopefully, in view of Watson's continued scurrilous attempts to undermine the elected leader of his party, most caving clubs won't touch him with a bargepole!

Personally, despite voting for Corbyn twice, I would be quite happy to see Watson as prime minister... I don't think having a difference of opinion is quite the same as undermining. But this is all probably a discussion for another forum...

Offline nobrotson

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2019, 01:08:37 pm »
Why don't we judge him by his voting record rather than his character, more objective and gives a good reflection of how seriously he takes representing his constituents, party members and other members of the public:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/11309/tom_watson/west_bromwich_east/votes

'Consistently voted for the Iraq war'
'Consistently voted against investigations into the Iraq war'
'Generally voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system'

My impression of him based upon this evidence: A war-mongerer and someone who doesn't like being on the wrong side of history. Has also supported British involvement in Saudi Arabia's US backed illegal war in Yemen: https://medium.com/@TenPercent/labour-mps-who-abstained-on-welfare-stopping-saudi-war-crimes-f03c631c0268

'Almost always voted against a transparent Parliament'
'Generally voted for a stricter asylum system'
'Consistently voted for introducing ID cards'
'Consistently voted for allowing ministers to intervene in inquests'
'Generally voted against the introduction of elected Police and Crime Commissioners'
'Generally voted against requiring the mass retention of information about communications'
'Voted for mass surveillance of people’s communications and activities''Tom Watson generally voted for laws to promote equality and human rights'

My impression of him based upon this evidence: has certain quite frightening authoritarian tendencies. Based upon these votes and those mentioned above fails to recognise the consequence of bombing a country is an increase in asylum seekers to his own. Involvement in the expenses scandal almost certainly a factor in 'transparent parliament' (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5301766/Iain-Wright-and-Tom-Watson-lavish-100000-on-shared-central-London-flat-on-MPs-expenses.html). Contradictory votes upon human rights and equality. Other votes show he generally votes to protect workers rights. I quite honestly cannot understand his inability to empathise with asylum seekers and civilian victims of terror in other countries whilst apparently defending worker and human rights domestically.

'Consistently voted against selling England’s state owned forests'
'Almost always voted against culling badgers to tackle bovine tuberculosis'
'Generally voted for measures to prevent climate change: 13 votes for, 9 votes against, 7 absences, between 2004–2016'
'Generally voted for a lower voting age'

Seems to care about the environment and future voters.

'Consistently voted for greater public control of bus services'
'Voted for a publicly owned railway system'
'Almost always voted against the privatisation of Royal Mail'

Knows what the public want (these policies are publically extremely popular), so is representing voters here.

Overall impressions: a complicated and quite possibly manipulative and sly individual who does not want to be held accountable for his actions against the public interest, but is able to represent the public and his constituents accurately in some regards. When I have watched him give interviews he comes across to be an extremely condescending individual with little regard for the public at times and a committed public servant at others. I'd be interested to talk to him on a caving trip and over a pint in the pub afterwards. 
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Offline 2xw

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2019, 07:22:10 pm »
Quote
a complicated and quite possibly manipulative and sly individual who does not want to be held accountable for his actions against the public interest, but is able to represent the public and his constituents accurately in some regards.

An MP?

None of his voting record is relevant to his ability to appreciate the sport of caving, especially given that it's not exactly an unusual record. Any lobbying by BCA should be cross party and apolitical on issues that don't affect cavers.

Online Badlad

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2019, 08:12:35 pm »
I agree.  I took David Davis on a trip because he was interested in caving and seemed likely to support the CRoW campaign.  He was a very useful ally.  'Hang em high' Davis is about as far politically at the other end of the spectrum to me as you can get but that would not stop me seeking his or any other politicians support on behalf of cavers and caving.  I've been to see my own local MP a number of times to promote caving in his constituency (a large part of the Dales) and he is Julian Smith, Chief whip.  Say no more  ;)

Offline Ian Adams

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2019, 08:35:51 pm »
Quote
... Any lobbying by BCA should be cross party and apolitical on issues that don't affect cavers.


+1  :thumbsup:
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Online alastairgott

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2019, 09:39:51 pm »
Wonder if this is an extension of what it's like at the "Rotson" family dinner table...  :blink:

Online David Rose

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2019, 05:39:00 am »
If we're going to examine Tom Watson's record as a politician, there are four items of significance which Rob has not mentioned.

1. He abused parliamentary privilege to accuse the late Leon Brittan of being a paedophile on the basis of allegations made by Carl Beech, currently on trial for peverting the course of justice in respect of these and other false claims. Watson has since apologised to Brittan's widow.

2. He has consistently chamioned Draconian, state-enforced legislative controls on the press, which would disastrously limit freedom of speech.

3. He has denounced anti-semitism in the Labour Party and the feeble way it has tried to deal with this.

4. He has managed to lose an awful lot of weight and keep it off. I rate the first two points on this list as serious negatives, the third a positive. As Tim says, most politicians have mixed records. Tom Watson certainly does. That said, I get the sense his views and general judgement have improved since he became thinner. Taking up caving could be the final stage towards him achieving true enlightenment! (Full disclosure: I loathe Jeremy Corbyn.)   


Offline MarkS

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2019, 07:38:01 am »
Taking up caving could be the final stage towards him achieving true enlightenment!

 :lol: :lol: I hope he reads this!

Offline mch

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2019, 10:29:34 am »
(Full disclosure: I loathe Jeremy Corbyn.) 

So will you be voting for Johnson or Hunt?

Offline royfellows

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2019, 10:39:02 am »
I think we aught to keep politics off here and fight from our own corner, which is caving.
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline droid

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2019, 10:47:49 am »
I agree with Roy.

Disclosure: I loathe the Conservative and Unionist Party and all they stand for.
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline royfellows

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2019, 12:08:45 pm »

Disclosure: I loathe the Conservative and Unionist Party and all they stand for.

A lot of people who vote for them could well agree with you
 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Glad NAMHO 2019 over.

Offline nobrotson

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2019, 12:35:57 pm »
I didn't have any intention of starting political shitslinging earlier on, I just felt that if we're going to start judging politicians we should do it based on objective information like their voting records as far as possible. Also I do feel it is relevant for people to know more about who the BCA is lobbying to regarding caving: I think most people would want lobbying occurring on behalf of any group of people with particular motives to be transparent and open. I think Tim is an extremely effective lobbyist for caving and representative of caving in this regard: I'm not sure I could always put caving before my political beliefs if I was engaging with politicians in this way. Luckily I don't do his job so I don't have to.

Also, for those that aren't aware, the website theyworkforyou.com came into being through the actions of a member of the UK caving community, who is a self-described 'freedom of information activist',  and his colleagues. Its a really great democratic resource that still isn't very well known to the public. I wonder what Tom Watson's opinion of this resource is?
the man is mentally ill. I have seen him eat a plastic pie.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2019, 05:16:01 pm »
Surely Tom Watson is a good bet for lobbying - he's one of the most prominent Gaitskellites in the party (read Blairite for the modern era) and was elected to deputy PM as a result of a need to keep the two halves of the party together. This means that he holds significant sway in the parliamentary labour party, could be well positioned for promotion or leadership should the current holder resign.

Online David Rose

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2019, 08:55:28 am »
Mch: neither. I am not a Tory.

Offline caving_fox

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2019, 09:17:42 am »
Quote
Also, for those that aren't aware, the website theyworkforyou.com came into being through the actions of a member of the UK caving community,

I didn't know that and have used the website from time to time. It's a useful resource, so thank you caver!
If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

Offline mikem

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2019, 04:49:36 pm »
Or maybe he's looking for somewhere to hide...

Online David Rose

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2019, 08:57:25 am »
There have been several reports recently suggesting Tom Watson may soon challenge Corbyn for the Labour leadership. Here's another one - by the well-informed Nick Cohen:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/07/revealed-tom-watsons-secret-plan-to-oust-jeremy-corbyn/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_content=060719_Weekly_Highlights_26&utm_campaign=Weekly_Highlights

The question is: is becoming a caver part of his strategy? If it is, and it works, can the BCA use this to gain leverage with a possible future PM to get closer to final victory for our campaign on CROW access?

Offline droid

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Re: Might Tom Watson MP be going caving??
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2019, 01:24:19 pm »
Get a grip David  :lol: :lol: :lol:

What possible use would 'being a caver' be to any leadership bid? In terms of allies, he'd be far better off taking up angling, since anglers outnumber cavers by a factor of many  :lol:
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