Author Topic: Foot and Mouth  (Read 1065 times)

Online Duck ditch

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Foot and Mouth
« on: May 15, 2020, 06:49:10 pm »
Just as a comparison.  Can anyone remember the restrictions during 2001 foot and mouth restrictions.  1967 if you can remember that far back. 
It’s different of course but my memory was that walking caving climbing etc was banned.
I remember some farmers got, shall we say, very aggressive protecting there livestock.
Did anyone manage to get underground legitimately. 
How long were we banned from the countryside.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 06:59:55 pm »
Before my time, but Hunters Lodge Inn Sink was opened in that time (although I remember reading that most of the exploration was done after the crisis ended?)

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2020, 07:12:34 pm »
I remember both. The 1967 / 1968 one didn't really affect me much as a student except by stopping me from going caving, but I have been living in a small village in the Dales since 1978, and the 2001 one was devastating. Not being able to go caving, or running and walking except on the road was bad enough. But the effect it had on the community was dreadful. I saw farmers reduced to tears as amateur ham-fisted slaughter men culled their flocks and herds.  The area was horribly quiet for months afterwards. I wouldn't want to live through that experience again.

Online PeteHall

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2020, 07:16:31 pm »
But during that time, you could still meet your mates at the pub, go to work as usual (unless you were a farmer, where things were a bit different), meet your family, visit your elderly or dying relatives, go to school (as was my case at the time), go to the cinema, go shopping etc.

Yes, much of the countryside was off limits, but the rest of life was normal for most people. Now, everything else is on hold too. It's not really the same situation at all.
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Offline paul

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2020, 07:45:07 pm »
I remember the 2001 instance. We were planning a trip down Meregill and parked in one of the laybys up past the Hill Inn. We had heard the news about Foot and Mouth being found in some parts of the country a day or so before but didn't think anything of it.
 
In the time it took to park and get changed, the gate leading onto the path towards Southerscales had a new sign nailed on it saying the area was closed.


The only cave we could get to was Ibbeth Peril as you could drive straight to the car park from the road and walking to the cave didn't involve crossing farmland or an area with livestock.

As PeteHall says, it stopped us from caving, walking and climbing etc, and most caving club huts were closed (at least those which involved crossing farmland were closed voluntarily), but otherwise life was pretty normal, unlike the current situation.
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Offline mikem

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2020, 07:51:25 pm »
Before my time, but Hunters Lodge Inn Sink was opened in that time (although I remember reading that most of the exploration was done after the crisis ended?)
Roger just wanted to get JRat out of the pub  ;)

Offline caving_fox

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2020, 07:54:50 pm »
CwmDwr was open but not Top. Learnt quite a bit more of thee series that year. Can't drive there now. Someof Stoney was open too IIRC but little else in Peaks.

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Offline langcliffe

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2020, 09:16:43 pm »
During the 2001 outbreak a fence was built from the Clapham Estate grounds to Ingleborough Cave effectively enclosing it from the pasture, so that the show cave could remain open, and the Jarmans kindly allowed cavers beyond the show cave. BPC ripped Cellar Gallery to shreds and found a parallel passage, and John Cordingley took the opportunity to sort out the phreatic maze between the mid-Wallows and Giant's Hall Bedding Plane. I think it was also then that the White Rose had a poke in Rimstone East.

The Back-End saw more visits during those six months than it has since.

Offline Andyj23UK

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2020, 09:55:58 pm »
i was not caving at the time - but found myself effectivly banned from the YDNP  and LDNP for the reaceation activities .

but as ofthers have pointed out - i was still working - and life at home - was almost totally unaffected

on a cave note - the TSG was still fully operational - and many cavers were working leads - in the peak // speedwell system - and found / developed a lot of new stuffs during thast time

Online Graigwen

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2020, 10:01:58 pm »
I have been waiting for Mrs Trellis to share his memories of Aber caving during the 1967 outbreak, but as he has not done so I will paste them for all to enjoy:-

"Another notable weekend was during the foot & mouth outbreak of 1967  when all caving areas were closed other than Burrington Combe on Mendip. We stayed at Mike Harris' house in Keynsham and queued up (yes queued up!) to do Rod's Pot and Goatchurch. Mike Harris wasn't too pleased when someone, smashed on scrumpy, puked in his fish pond and killed all the goldfish. The highlight of the weekend for me was sighting, outside Goatchurch, a member of the Homo Speleologicus Reactionarius Mendipus species. This callow youth sported a pair of hobnailed boots (Hobber Power!), the remains of a boiler suit, and a compressed paper helmet with a chin-strap of hairy twine. He appeared to be assembling the rusty remains of a "Premier" carbide lamp. "Youth", I said, "argh" he replied, "youth", I continued, "don't you know you should have a rubber ring between the two parts of the lamp?"

"Rubberrrr" he replied, "don't know nothing about rubberrrr, this be all metal argh".

I stood back while he struck a match, the flare of the phosphorus highlighting his acne craters, and applied it to the carbon-block, bible-black jet of his Bradford built wonder light.

A whoosh of acetylene came from the lamp's joint, immediately setting fire to the hairy twine round his chin. Startled by his sideburns actually burning and his cardboard helmet starting to smoulder, he threw the flaming helmet to the ground and stamped it into small pieces with his hobnailed boots.
"

.

Online Duck ditch

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2020, 06:56:48 am »
Petehall is right this is far more restrictive.  Mentally far tougher.  Meeting and Keeping in touch with your friends and family is the Struggle this time, certainly for me anyway.
Farmers were indeed broken.  Langcliffe is right. It was very sad to see.
I think it lasted spring and summer.  I lived in Leeds at the time and didn’t come up at all. The same as this time I respected the rules given by the government. One visit to the Otley area made me realise how high tensions were running. 
I remember jrats pub car park dig too!
What I Also remember most was how reluctant landowners were to let you back onto footpaths etc even when the all clear was given.  They were allowed to block paths and even roads to contain the spread of the disease and lots of them were reluctant take down the barriers. 
I do hope people get out and about this weekend to release tensions at home.  Of course respect the social distancing protocol.  I don’t think it’s that hard even in busy places.

Offline mikem

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2020, 07:11:11 am »
The only area that was similarly affected was outdoor pursuits, as they couldn't operate at all, unless they had their own grounds. All group caving on Mendip was off limits, as were the crags & many of the waterways.

Online PeteHall

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2020, 07:56:50 am »
More importantly, if I remember correctly (I was a teenager at the time) nobody died from foot and mouth and nobody was in the slightest bit worried about dying.

Now, many people have lost loved ones, or are genuinely scared for their lives.
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Online Duck ditch

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2020, 11:46:24 am »
That’s right nobody died of foot and mouth yet the farmers literally drew there shotguns at times in order to Stop you going on the land to save there sheep.
I don’t know how it’s going out there today.  Hopefully not so confrontational. 
It is easy to distance yourself from others for the sake of others.

Offline Badlad

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2020, 01:59:46 pm »
I remember foot and mouth 2001 very well.  We caved in Peak Cavern a fair bit where we found new passage up Victoria Aven and at Disappointment Rift.  In the Dales the only cave we went in was Ingleborough Cave

I remember a slaughter man fell out of an upstairs window of a pub in Settle and died so there was at least one human death.  Although farm stock was obliterated the farmers were compensated for it and a lot of rural workers made a fortune jetwashing farms, etc, etc on top dollar a day.  Those who were really hard hit were involved in the rural tourist business.  Pegasus lost 80% of her earnings that year and it had a massive effect on outdoor gear sales.  Some companies went bust as there was no government help for them.

I remember Alan Steel from Inglesport threatening to lead a mass trespass if the countryside wasn't opened up again.  The positive result of the outbreak for us outdoor types was that the rural communities realised that their economy didn't just rely on farming.  Farms had holiday cottages, their kids worked down the local pub, cafe and shop.  Visitors and recreational activities were needed to survive.  If there is another foot and mouth outbreak I can't see locals being so keen to close down the countryside again, and although this pandemic is different in so many ways, visitors are needed to make the countryside tick.

Offline grahams

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2020, 03:51:34 pm »
There is a very powerful parallel between F&M and C19.

F&M is a disease of the farmyard. As far as I know, there is no recorded instance of a walker transmitting the disease. F&M was introduced into this country through the illegal purchase of pigswill sourced from a country in which F&M is rife and was initially transmitted around the UK by the movement of those pigs.

Similarly, according to all the virology reports that I have read, C19 is an indoor disease, transmitted via airborn particles and droplets in a similar manner to colds and flu. As far as I know there are no recorded instances of the disease being transmitted outdoors. The Cheltenham Gold Cup for example, attended by 250,000 people crammed into crowded seating, resulted in only a minor spike in the area, indicating that the probability of infection is very small when outdoors.

It seems to me that we've yet again shut the countryside down for no good reason

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Offline mikem

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2020, 04:14:10 pm »
But what percentage of Cheltenham attendees (& tradestands) are actually local?

Provable transmissions (beyond doubt) is pretty much restricted to those who are too ill to go out ..

Offline Mrs Trellis

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2020, 06:11:15 pm »
The highest infection rates in England are in south Lakeland especially Barrow-in-Furness - 4 x the national average.  Tourists have been blamed mainly but some suspect winter sports locals returning from Italian ski resorts which is thought to be the origin of the outbreaks in southern Europe.
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Offline grahams

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2020, 06:35:33 pm »
There are a lot of contractors from other areas at BAE working in open plan offices who might have brought the infection into Barrow. Also, Furness Hospital has done more C19 testing than most other hospitals so this could have skewed the figures.

Round here (Grange) a cluster of infections has been traced to a quiz night in a pub in the Carmel area.
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Offline Judi Durber

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2020, 07:53:24 pm »

It seems to me that we've yet again shut the countryside down for no good reason

grahams please do not EVER EVER say that sentence in relation to Foot & Mouth

Like the latest pandemic you really should not make light of it unless you have personal experience of it. 

And yes people did die, they committed suicide having seen all their animals killed due to the disease!
We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life waiting for us.

Offline crickleymal

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2020, 09:10:53 am »
It's reckoned that a large percentage of the infections in Gloucestershire are clustered around the race course and the train station and result from the Cheltenham Festival. Not a small spike either.
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Offline mikem

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Offline grahams

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2020, 09:29:50 am »
It's reckoned that a large percentage of the infections in Gloucestershire are clustered around the race course and the train station and result from the Cheltenham Festival. Not a small spike either.

27 hospital admissions following an event which 250,000 people attended is a small spike, though not insignificant. The size of the spike backs up the virologist's conclusions that this is an indoor disease. By contrast, 8 of our U3A cycling group members contracted C19 from a quiz night in a small local pub with at most 50 or 60 people in it.
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Offline grahams

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2020, 09:32:37 am »

It seems to me that we've yet again shut the countryside down for no good reason

grahams please do not EVER EVER say that sentence in relation to Foot & Mouth

Like the latest pandemic you really should not make light of it unless you have personal experience of it. 

And yes people did die, they committed suicide having seen all their animals killed due to the disease!

I'm not making light of anything. Please don't put words in my mouth. Your last sentence backs up my comment.
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Offline droid

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Re: Foot and Mouth
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2020, 04:48:59 pm »
Didn't realise grahams was an epidemiologist.

I've lived through two F&M epidemics and the local reaction to people wandering around farmland wasn't positive in either epidemic. Not in Derbyshire anyway.
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