Author Topic: New BCA Secretary  (Read 3520 times)

Offline mikem

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2020, 09:00:12 pm »
£300,000?!?

Offline Russell Myers

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2020, 09:23:00 pm »
£300,000?!?
Here you go - Council Minutes 11/01/2020 Page 3. Openly available on the BCA website along with a host of other stuff I thought that may prick some ears up. BCA anymore interesting/boring?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 10:26:50 am by PeteHall, Reason: Formatting fixed »
JFK: Change is the law of life and those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.

Offline Ed

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2020, 09:48:40 pm »
Some gates and locks are paid for by a conservation fee when a trip goes down the cave. In our digs we supply our own such things. I don't want to generate even more argument here I am just putting my own perception which as has been suggested might be totally erroneous.

Perhaps its a case of " What have the Romans done for us " for those that remember the film.

Go Yorkshire - save yourself a few £. Don't bother with padlocks  :o

Offline mikem

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2020, 09:55:13 pm »
£80,000 of that is insurance reserve, which should maybe be bumped up to £100,000, if it's actually necessary.

Offline Russell Myers

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2020, 10:54:17 pm »
£300,000?!?
Here you go - Council Minutes 11/01/2020 Page 3. Openly available on the BCA website along with a host of other stuff I thought that may prick some ears up. BCA anymore interesting/boring?

For the link https://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=about:documents:council_meetings:bca_council_meeting_11th_january_2020_reports.pdf
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 10:28:25 am by PeteHall, Reason: Formatting fixed »
JFK: Change is the law of life and those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.

Offline mrodoc

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2020, 11:17:43 pm »
Why don't you get some jet washers and start cleaning up some caves. I have donated to CSCC who bought some for use on Mendip. You could do some  great cleaning  in GG between Main Chamber and Mud Hall.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2020, 04:05:11 am »
To me it just seems things would be much the same whether it ceased to exist at all.

Possibly. I would do the things I do for the caving community with or without BCA, as would most of council. People would work in their small groups, reach out to other regions and learn from each other and maybe band together to form a... oh no wait. I have often referred to much of the BCA constitutional reform as 'rearranging the deck chairs' because building a functional governing body is more about bringing in people and bolstering caving's 'civil service'.

I would argue that national organisation allows us certain economies of scale that makes certain projects viable. As Russell points out, we have a big opportunity to invest and we should do so wisely. Bring a proposal to BCA and you might be surprised!

It's just that to me it has no relevance whatsoever and really that's my problem. Reaching out ( as they say ) to somebody like me might be rather difficult.

I don't think we have to. I very much follow Nick William's view on what the BCA should do - help cavers. Doesn't matter if they are members, if they think we're irrelevant, or totally disengaged - we will still try and help. Keeping our institutions strong by making sure we help clubs bring in the next generation of cavers, supporting BCRA, Ghar Parau, all the Y&D stuff etc. Perhaps more of your fellow cavers are helped by BCA than you realise? I guess my point is that, perhaps inadvertently, we're both working towards the same goal - enriching the community and making sure there's something to pass on.

I guess I should add my voice to the public chorus of thanks to Matt and Russell - I've already had long discussions with Russell and work is already underway. He very much has my support and I'm happy people are still willing to step in despite the bitter image the organisation currently has. Anyway that's my ramble over - look at the timestamp if it seems incoherent!

PS. CV's do get presented at meetings Pete but I think we'd see more (more publically) if positions were actually contested and thus 'representatives' more representative.

Offline Robert Scott

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2020, 07:19:54 am »
Why don't you get some jet washers and start cleaning up some caves. I have donated to CSCC who bought some for use on Mendip. You could do some  great cleaning  in GG between Main Chamber and Mud Hall.
The Bradford have already started that over that last few years.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2020, 07:36:47 am »
Why don't you get some jet washers and start cleaning up some caves. I have donated to CSCC who bought some for use on Mendip.

If the BCA was to start doing that the CSCC (and other councils) would be leading the charge to complain that the BCA was interfering in regional matters. However, if a regional council was to purchase jet washers they would (I assume) be able to claim that back from the CSCC as a conservation and access expense. You shouldn't need to donate to the CSCC for them to do this. C&A work is a very small part of the BCA's budget but that's because it's usually cheap and the regional councils don't ask for much, not because the BCA is stingy with the money.

On an tangentially related note, the gate on Hunters Lodge Inn Sink cost the CSCC over £1000 I think, but this was of course reimbursed by the BCA as a C&A expense.

Offline mikem

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2020, 08:07:20 am »
Not quite sure why a regional council would claim back from the CSCC...  ;)

Offline andrewmc

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2020, 08:33:56 am »
Not quite sure why a regional council would claim back from the CSCC...  ;)

oops (well spotted)... replace second CSCC with BCA:
'However, if a regional council was to purchase jet washers they would (I assume) be able to claim that back from the **BCA** as a conservation and access expense.'

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2020, 09:09:58 am »
Nearlywhite - you wrote "despite the bitter image the organisation currently has".

Most of your post above was really good and clearly there are some issues to be looked at but I think these words go too far. There is much about BCA which is excellent and perhaps we should all focus on the positive side ant just various difficulties which would benefit from being addressed.

Here's one thought which might help shift the balance of thinking back in the right direction a bit - and I'm glad of the opportunity to mention it. I would like to thank those incredibly helpful people who administer our national caving library. I certainly make use of it regularly and see it as just one of the many benefits of membership. This applies to the obvious people in the front line (you know who you are) and many volunteers who do all sorts of work quietly behind the scenes for the benefit of all cavers. So - a very big personal thank you from me.  :clap2:


Offline nearlywhite

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2020, 03:43:18 pm »
Nearlywhite - you wrote "despite the bitter image the organisation currently has".

Most of your post above was really good and clearly there are some issues to be looked at but I think these words go too far.

Haha thank you. Perhaps a little over the top Pitlamp - what I meant by that was more that the reputation of council scares away people from volunteering with the BCA - in groups like Y&D for example. Council isn't the whole of the organisation, nor the bulk of the volunteer work (or at least it shouldn't be!). I guess I'm making my own job harder by saying there's a bitter image.  :-[

I'm cautiously optimistic - my proposal for an interim council meeting with a raft of proposals to keep it functioning gained support from pretty much all 'belligerents'. I think there's a coherent plan to fix IT, new blood and ideas coming into Y&D, a plan to further develop P&I and a replacement secretary (possibly the most important cog in the machine!).

I imagine the agenda will be published once we sort out specific dates, to allow people to run for vacant positions and lobby their representatives to vote a certain way. I am hoping it will be livestreamed if possible

Offline Russell Myers

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Re: New BCA Secretary
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2020, 07:38:00 pm »
Nearlywhite - you wrote "despite the bitter image the organisation currently has".

Most of your post above was really good and clearly there are some issues to be looked at but I think these words go too far.

Haha thank you. Perhaps a little over the top Pitlamp - what I meant by that was more that the reputation of council scares away people from volunteering with the BCA - in groups like Y&D for example. Council isn't the whole of the organisation, nor the bulk of the volunteer work (or at least it shouldn't be!). I guess I'm making my own job harder by saying there's a bitter image.  :-[

I'm cautiously optimistic - my proposal for an interim council meeting with a raft of proposals to keep it functioning gained support from pretty much all 'belligerents'. I think there's a coherent plan to fix IT, new blood and ideas coming into Y&D, a plan to further develop P&I and a replacement secretary (possibly the most important cog in the machine!).

I imagine the agenda will be published once we sort out specific dates, to allow people to run for vacant positions and lobby their representatives to vote a certain way. I am hoping it will be livestreamed if possible
I like the idea of being a cog, not so sure about importance, you lot out there are the most important but hey, I can live with it!
JFK: Change is the law of life and those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.

 

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