Author Topic: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897  (Read 1652 times)

Offline OldPhartCaver

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For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« on: August 14, 2020, 03:21:41 am »
If you've opened this post you'll know what this book is. Collector's item. Original leather bound version. Good condition. Some light spotting on maps and front pages. Crisp pages throughout, no torn pages or damaged edges. All images including fold-out maps in good shape. Book looks very lightly used.

I'm downsizing my collection - into late retirement and no one to leave this gem to. Any offers?

Contact me at seasmain.taylor@gmail.com if you are serious.

Offline Fulk

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2020, 08:23:29 am »
I remember looking at this in the Bodleian Library when I was supposed to be studying chemistry; a fine tome . . . but out of my price range, I'm afraid.


Online 2xw

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2020, 01:53:20 pm »
So - for those of us who've never heard of it, what's it worth?


Offline OldPhartCaver

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2020, 06:55:10 pm »
It's worth exactly whatever someone is willing to pay for it, said Alice.

Can I suggest you do some research? Start with Google maybe.

OK. Seriously, it's hard to do satire or humour online, without risking upsetting someone and that's not my intention. This is a pretty rare book. It's one of the earliest caving books written by 'the father of cave exploration' and as a result is widely sought after by libraries, book collectors, ordinary cavers, etc. and especially those who have a combined love of books and an interest in caving. If you discover one for sale and fit that description you'll want to acquire it if you don't already have it in your collection. Cost tends to be a secondary issue - condition is important, but these days everybody is struggling and hoping not to be scammed online.

I've been a caver since 1962 and I was down a wild cave as recently as last August but now it's time to stop as my body isn't up to serious stuff any more. I'd like this to have a good home and to find a caver who loves books an appreciates it for what it is. If you wanted to read it, you could do that online if your archaic French is good. There are scanned versions out there. There are even translated versions of different chapters available out there. But if you know the feel you get when you hold an original then you'll know what I mean when I say it's a bit like finding a new bit of passage underground. It's YOURS.

It's hard for me to decide what I would accept as an offer because that decision is wrapped up in 'who is this buyer' as much as 'what will they pay' - for the right buyer I might be prepared to give a accept a different price compared to a commercial or institutional buyer. But let me say this - there seems to be a few of these selling online for about £350-500 or € or $ but I'm not certain about whether they are real or facsimile versions made in India.

I've had mine informally appraised as anything up to 1000 £/€/$ but that would be under auction, and for a private sale I'd be willing to be more reasonable - especially if he profile of the buyer was 'right'. i.e - a caver who knows the value and a book lover/collector trying to build up his/her collection of such books.

And in any deal, payment would be by PayPal only as this protects both of us - and shipping would be extra at the actual cost of courier - international rates because I don't live in UK or EU - to guarantee secure and traceable delivery. (Fedex, UPS, DHL etc).   

Hope this helps!

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2020, 09:39:05 pm »
Hi, any pictures of this and the other tomes you have on offer?
Thanks.

Offline ZombieCake

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2020, 12:17:53 am »
Supplementary question: is there any conservation or restoration needed on the leather or binding?  Not a show stopper. I know few people that could advise if needed.

Offline moorebooks

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2020, 03:39:47 pm »
It's worth exactly whatever someone is willing to pay for it, said Alice.

Can I suggest you do some research? Start with Google maybe.

OK. Seriously, it's hard to do satire or humour online, without risking upsetting someone and that's not my intention. This is a pretty rare book. It's one of the earliest caving books written by 'the father of cave exploration' and as a result is widely sought after by libraries, book collectors, ordinary cavers, etc. and especially those who have a combined love of books and an interest in caving. If you discover one for sale and fit that description you'll want to acquire it if you don't already have it in your collection. Cost tends to be a secondary issue - condition is important, but these days everybody is struggling and hoping not to be scammed online.

I've been a caver since 1962 and I was down a wild cave as recently as last August but now it's time to stop as my body isn't up to serious stuff any more. I'd like this to have a good home and to find a caver who loves books an appreciates it for what it is. If you wanted to read it, you could do that online if your archaic French is good. There are scanned versions out there. There are even translated versions of different chapters available out there. But if you know the feel you get when you hold an original then you'll know what I mean when I say it's a bit like finding a new bit of passage underground. It's YOURS.

It's hard for me to decide what I would accept as an offer because that decision is wrapped up in 'who is this buyer' as much as 'what will they pay' - for the right buyer I might be prepared to give a accept a different price compared to a commercial or institutional buyer. But let me say this - there seems to be a few of these selling online for about £350-500 or € or $ but I'm not certain about whether they are real or facsimile versions made in India.

I've had mine informally appraised as anything up to 1000 £/€/$ but that would be under auction, and for a private sale I'd be willing to be more reasonable - especially if he profile of the buyer was 'right'. i.e - a caver who knows the value and a book lover/collector trying to build up his/her collection of such books.

And in any deal, payment would be by PayPal only as this protects both of us - and shipping would be extra at the actual cost of courier - international rates because I don't live in UK or EU - to guarantee secure and traceable delivery. (Fedex, UPS, DHL etc).   

Hope this helps!

There are copies around and a genuine one in France is going for £300 + shipping , I would need to check its an original

Mike

Offline OldPhartCaver

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2020, 02:36:25 am »
Supplementary question: is there any conservation or restoration needed on the leather or binding?  Not a show stopper. I know few people that could advise if needed.

I don't think so - it's sat on my shelves for almost 25 years, (glass fronted bookcase) been handled with great care, not folded out to scan, and It's in the state I got it in. Whether it might need conservation work becomes a personal matter - the cover is somewhat faded - but I've taken it as it was found - but you might need to have it returned to near mint condition.

If you are serious I will take some photos and email to you personally but I'm not into posting online on this site - it's pretty clunky.

Offline OldPhartCaver

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2020, 02:37:16 am »
So - for those of us who've never heard of it, what's it worth?

I responded to this below.

Offline OldPhartCaver

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2020, 02:40:20 am »
Hi, any pictures of this and the other tomes you have on offer?
Thanks.

I've just given the names of the items since the Internet is full of images of these books.

IF you are seriously interested send me a PM and I will be happy to send you photos of what you might want to see.

But I'm really not interested in 'tyre kickers'....sorry

Offline OldPhartCaver

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2020, 02:53:22 am »


There are copies around and a genuine one in France is going for £300 + shipping , I would need to check its an original

Mike

How do you know the one in France is genuine? And if it is, why not buy it?

And how would you propose "to check if it's an original"?  Buying or selling something online is fraught with all sorts of risks for an individual. I can't guarantee you'd pay for or return something shipped for inspection and you can't guarantee I won't take your money and run. As an individual who is offering to sell online, my only suggestion is to pay through PayPal which seems to have fairly robust procedures to protect the seller and buyer. I could be naive.

I've already had offers to provide my bank account number so that an amount of money (far in excess of what this might be worth) would be put into my account and I could just return the balance - several thousands of $. Like I wasn't born yesterday.

Anyway, If you have some suggestions, if you are interested, PM me and tell me something about where you cave and which club you're with any why this might be of interest to you etc. Otherwise I think I'll just donate this to my old caving club library.

Far less hassle really! :)

Offline Minion

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2020, 10:07:11 am »



Anyway, If you have some suggestions, if you are interested, PM me and tell me something about where you cave and which club you're with any why this might be of interest to you etc.

This has turned from book sale into something akin to a job interview.... :coffee:

Offline OldPhartCaver

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2020, 05:05:13 am »

This has turned from book sale into something akin to a job interview.... :coffee:

I posted a simple advert for items that are well-known about, and if not, easily found out about. I'm not too keen on doing legwork for others and I asked for offers for the items on that basis.  I know there is an interest out there for these rare items and because they are rare, I'm keen to see they get into the hands of someone who will value them at a price they and I can agree on.

I'm sorry if that comes across as akin to an interview or even being picky, but my view is when parting with a beloved item it's not just a financial transaction, and it's worth making sure the buyer will actually appreciate what he/she has acquired, and that the items don't just disappear never to be seen again.   

If you have an interest  in any of the just email me and we can discuss that.

Offline yrammy

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2020, 08:55:20 am »
We would love it for the British Caving Library but I think it would be too expensive for us. I will ask Jenny Potts what she thinks.
Mary

Offline moorebooks

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2020, 09:33:33 am »
We would love it for the British Caving Library but I think it would be too expensive for us. I will ask Jenny Potts what she thinks.
Mary

An excellent destination - perhaps we could raise funds through donation to buy , I would contribute if others want to do similar.

Mike

Offline moorebooks

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2020, 09:43:54 am »
"How do you know the one in France is genuine? And if it is, why not buy it?"

OldPhartCaver - you may have noticed I am a book seller specialising Mining and Caving books I am not looking to buy your book but provide a market valuation for members of this forum to decide on. The Dealer I have asked in France is both a genuine and honest dealer . He is also bound by the rules of the particular Association he is a member of.  Caveat Emptor regardless of whatever you purchase

Mike

Offline mch

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2020, 10:02:50 am »
We would love it for the British Caving Library but I think it would be too expensive for us. I will ask Jenny Potts what she thinks.
Mary

An excellent destination - perhaps we could raise funds through donation to buy , I would contribute if others want to do similar.

Mike

I would be very happy to chip in

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2020, 10:09:41 am »
We would love it for the British Caving Library but I think it would be too expensive for us. I will ask Jenny Potts what she thinks.
Mary

An excellent destination - perhaps we could raise funds through donation to buy , I would contribute if others want to do similar.

Mike

Me too

Offline OldPhartCaver

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2020, 04:54:52 pm »
We would love it for the British Caving Library but I think it would be too expensive for us. I will ask Jenny Potts what she thinks.
Mary

An excellent destination - perhaps we could raise funds through donation to buy , I would contribute if others want to do similar.

Mike

Me too

I'm very pleased to see this connection! I've had a number of people interested in the Martel but no-one has yet convinced me that they are the person to whom I would like the book to be sold. If the idea of the British Caving Library acquiring it is serious I'd be very happy and I'd work with people to achieve that outcome. It's the kind of thing I was hoping to uncover.

Can I suggest that we continue this correspondence by email so that we can see what we can achieve?

I just want to say again that a market price is not my priority (many people don't seem to get that), I'm not a bookseller except in this instance, I'm keen to see the item in a good home where it is accessible and secure and can remain as an artifact for future generations of cavers.

Please email me at seasmain.taylor@gmail.com - that's an email address I use for non-personal emails, but from there on we can work at the personal level.

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2020, 07:41:19 pm »
Please get in touch BCL :-)

Offline Allan

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2020, 09:04:49 pm »
I also would be happy to donate for a BCL purchase

Offline yrammy

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2020, 08:31:22 am »
I am waiting for Jenny Potts to reply as she is the BCL co-ordinator. I would love to see this book at the BCL - and even though I am the employed librarian - I would personally give £10 to the fund. 
Mary 

Offline Jenny P

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Re: For Sale: Martel - Ireland et Cavernes Anglaises, 1897
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2020, 12:49:35 pm »
I would love to see this in the British Caving Library.

We do have some extra funds acquired through donations to our Library Lucky Dips at past Hidden Earths and I can't think of a better use to put the money to.  Many thanks too for the offers to "chip in".

I'll have a chat to Mary tomorrow at the Library and we'll see what we can do.  I'll also email OldPhartCaver later today - in a rush at present.

 

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