Author Topic: Potosi mine Derbyshire (Read 1396 times)

markpot · « **on:** February 18, 2021, 09:52:18 pm »

Can any one point me in the direction of any info ?ive done the usual searches but cant seem to find any reference, any info much appreciated

Carbide1 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2021, 11:52:53 am »

There may be two references here but no direct linkage to a position, suggest you try to contact the original uploader of the info.

https://www.aditnow.co.uk/Database/

Graigwen · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2021, 11:58:46 am »

I doubt markpot is regionally confused, but for the sake of completeness I'll mention that Esgair Hir was known as the Welsh Potosi at one time. It is described as such in George Borrow's "Wild Wales".

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Carbide1 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2021, 12:02:44 pm »

Link does not seem to work. Try image.

paul · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2021, 12:33:04 pm »

It seems the top-ranking results on Google for "Potosí mine" refer to a silver mine in Bolivia. Even further from Derbyshire!

Carbide1 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2021, 12:36:57 pm »

However, two respected Aditnow members have posted links to the SK area, perhaps they will comment further.

Graigwen · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2021, 12:46:55 pm »

Quote from: paul on February 19, 2021, 12:33:04 pm

It seems the top-ranking results on Google for "Potosí mine" refer to a silver mine in Bolivia. Even further from Derbyshire!

As far as I am aware, British mines called Potosi adopted the name in order to be associated with the fabulous richness of the Bolivian mine, this provided a lot of silver for the Spanish Empire.

Esgair Hir was a lead mine, but with significant silver content in the galena. (I worked the are in 1970-71 for a Canadian mining company.)

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mikem · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2021, 12:51:24 pm »

Grid ref on page 11: https://pdmhs.co.uk/MiningHistory/Bulletin%252016-5%2520-%2520Geological%2520Setting%2520of%2520the%2520Mineral%2520Deposits%2520at%2520Brassington%2520and%2520Carsington.pdf

There's also a letter from Trevor ford in vol 15 no 3

paul · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2021, 12:55:38 pm »

I get a 404 page not found for that link.

Interesting - Brassington is definitely in Derbyshire, I used to live there! I never came across the name Potosi before though.

pwhole · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2021, 01:01:34 pm »

You can find them via the Mining History article database. I'd heard of it, and seen the AditNow entry but never read anything about it - Jim Rieuwerts didn't give me much info on that area sadly but I think many of the mines around there were tiny affairs - the name may have been a local joke owing to its total lack of success. I guess we'd have heard about mines with high silver content, if they existed - Ball Eye at Cromford being one exception

https://pdmhs.co.uk/files/articles.php

mikem · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2021, 01:06:28 pm »

Quote from: paul on February 19, 2021, 12:55:38 pm

I get a 404 page not found for that link.

Interesting - Brassington is definitely in Derbyshire, I used to live there! I never came across the name Potosi before though.

Yeah it doesn't like the %2520 bits. I just searched "potosi" lead mine Derbyshire

This has a map & says it was one of the "poor men's mines":
http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/A73-BRAS.htm

Seems it was also the name of field:
http://www.wirksworthromanproject.co.uk/download/i/mark_dl/u/4012767328/4635968015/TheStreet3ed.pdf

& At end of rieuwerts' book:
https://www.kriso.ee/lead-mining-derbyshire-v-3-db-9781843063452.html?lang=eng

This explains origin of such names as suggested above (also numerous other sites):
http://powerwaterproject.net/?p=556

Plus, for the Welsh version:
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Mines

Cantclimbtom · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2021, 01:30:16 pm »

Quote

in order to be associated with the fabulous richness of the Bolivian mine, this provided a lot of silver for the Spanish Empire...

It's such an example hyperbole naming, I almost wonder if it was a salting scheme or some form of investment scam

History Trog · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2021, 01:56:05 pm »

If anyone wants info on Potosi Mine at Ible, I can supply it from the barmaster's books. It is marked faintly in pencil on the Barmaster's Map in the fields SE of the hamlet of Ible. The 25 inch map in question was posted by Dickie Bird on the Internet with the title "Snake" as it extends down to Snake Mine. It was only a small mine.

Carbide1 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2021, 02:21:00 pm »

Info from Dickie Bird link.

https://www.aditnow.co.uk/Mines/Snake-Lead-Mine_11796/

Down and beyond · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2021, 03:24:48 pm »

The stone “stemples “ are they unique to this part of the country I no we have spoken about them before , assuming they was working platforms the same as the wooden ones for access etc .

markpot · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2021, 03:53:01 pm »

Many thanks for the replys,sorry, i should have been more specefic,it was infact the potosi at Ible i was refering to that History Trog mentioned.

mikem · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2021, 04:07:51 pm »

The Mendip miners wedged boulders into narrow rifts to use as stemples.

royfellows · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2021, 04:19:39 pm »

Quote from: Down and beyond on February 19, 2021, 03:24:48 pm

The stone “stemples “ are they unique to this part of the country I no we have spoken about them before , assuming they was working platforms the same as the wooden ones for access etc .

Very common in the St Just area of Cornwall, nice granite ones in the Wheal Margery adit at St Ives as well. Put in for roof support.
You may find references to Margery adit as "Crocodile Mine", its an insider joke from those who have been in.

History Trog · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2021, 07:58:21 pm »

Jim Rieuwerts does give a reasonable summary of Potosi Mine history in his book. The main additional point that I would make is that the Mining Inspector's annual reports show it as active in the late 1870s, producing lead and zinc. Only a few dishes of lead ore are recorded at that time. It seems likely that, like many mines in the Bonsall Leys area, its main produce was calamine - the zinc ore. It certainly does not seem to have yielded much lead ore.

AR · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2021, 09:40:28 pm »

The level at Potosi is pretty well run in, but given the large number of uncapped shafts in the woods around it there may well be another way into the mine! I can well believe that many of the mines in the area made more from calamine than they did from lead, it's just a shame that the documentation is so scanty for the working of that mineral.

Loki · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2021, 08:24:33 am »

I have no idea about the Derbyshire potosi but I have been down the Bolivian one. The general public (incl us) buy bang and cord on the local market and give it to the miners! The local mint also gives an insight into the horrors of the west’s colonial past .

pwhole · « **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2021, 10:19:26 am »

Iain Stewart went into Cerro Rico in 'Rise of the Continents' - I seem to remember they made him chew coca leaves first, but that clip's not attached:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01bq65p

History Trog · « **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2021, 01:25:46 pm »

I have had a look through the Barmaster's records and the following are the most interesting entries:
Book 53 p240 3 July 1832 "Reuben Spencer and partners at their Level in Ible Wood called Chance" freed for old a vein ranging E-W. The founder is at the bottom of the Patch Piece at the top of Ible Wood.

Book 54 p39 15 Oct 1847 John Spencer and co were given an old founder as given to Reuben Spencer on 24 Feb 1832, being all Potosi Title and consolidating it with Windy Gap Title as it used to be, to include all the veins "from Netway Slack at the Brook bottom to the Sheep Wash from thence keeping the Watercourse to fouslage pool and then on the Fouslage Lane to Job Longdons and Travis's Gates From thence we keep to the fence which bounds Mathers title, down to Netway to the Brook bottom, the said fence being the next but one south of the Patch House". The title is called Chance Level.

Book 53 p173 24 Feb 1832 George Spencer given the old Potosi Title "for the use of Reuben Spencer at his Level in Ible Wood". It delineates the title exactly as in the above entry.

The small level that intrigued Jim cannot be Chance Level - it is too insignificant. It looks to me as if Chance Level is where Jim marks the Sough in Ible Wood, ranging NW to Potosi Vein. The two barmaster's entries that mention the sough in Ible Wood are only gifts of adjacent titles and do not mention which title the sough was associated with. The 6 inch Geological Survey marks a series of old workings through the fields on this line.

It would be interesting to look at a high resolution LiDAR scan of this area. If you know what you are doing (which i don't), one can freely download the Lidar data from the Environment Agency website and construct a scan. Are there any tech-types out there who could be kind enough to do this?

Brains · « **Reply #23 on:** February 20, 2021, 02:00:32 pm »

How's work going on the Matlock / Masson mines book? Money Waiting!

Had a look at the linked segment of the 25" map above but couldnt see the Potosi inscription. What were the main zinc ores being recovered? I did find a small piece of well crystallised sphalerite in Snake mine on the floor, and some less well developed sphalerite from Ball Eye. It looked black and non descript when found (in the deads) but has dried out to a deep brown and is very fine grained. Not sure about "calamine" - too distinct minerals of zinc that have a similar appearance, and am familiar with hydrozincite from Ecton and Nenthead. Has anyone posted a grid ref or google earth image to locate the mines yet?

Incidentally, the high Ag values for Ball Eye galena appear to be from one assay that had the value a factor of 10 higher than other analyses. Unless this value can be reproduced I would be inclined to think it was an error of calculation...

Brains · « **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2021, 02:32:19 pm »

In PDMHS 16-5, "Geological Setting of the mineral deposits at Brassington...etc." there is a map on p2 with Potosi marked pretty well in the centre of the diagram, near the junction of Manystones La and dale End just N of Brassington, approximately where this Google maps zoom is centred. Is this the correct place? Seems a long way from Snake and the 25" map segment? Not especially close to Ible either...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Manystones+Ln,+Matlock/@53.091429,-1.6510994,109m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487a20edd63a0b1d:0xc0930f21bec91afb!8m2!3d53.0888404!4d-1.6336409

From the AN database the two SK Potosi mines are similar but different places... The entry by ICLOK is the one referred to above, but other by Mike Higgins is much closer to Ible on the other side of the Via Gellia, and is centered below. Puzzling!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ible,+Matlock+DE4+4HS/@53.1077912,-1.6205607,27m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487a20af583f9025:0xb1b9c243f1bb9a76!8m2!3d53.111689!4d-1.6298109