Author Topic: Croesor Rhosydd  (Read 2745 times)

Offline SamMil

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Croesor Rhosydd
« on: March 27, 2021, 11:43:16 pm »
Croesor Rhosydd
A word of caution, attempted the through trip today, the rope on the 5m pitch out of the boat chamber is gone.
So unless you fancy free climbing the pitch, you have to reverse the trip.
If I get time this week I’ll make another trip to install a new rope.

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2021, 12:38:19 pm »
Really?? The day a few hours before Welsh lockdown (23rd Oct) there was both a jugging rope and a looped safety rope to clip. Have the Coblynau and/or thieving **** cave magpies taken it. I'm happy to donate a bit of rope but I won't be up in those parts for a few weeks at least. Maybe given the location, some glue in https://raumerclimbing.com/eng/prodotti_dettaglio.asp?prod=ribbed_stemple_rung-270x200&qi=2-21-380&qinav=2-21-m (home made from stainless rebar, or scavenged mine whatnot bolted on, but link to illustrate idea) would benefit that section as non srt can vandalise/steal, but that would further touristify the route?

Edit: actually that might be worse as they could then climb down and vandalise the canoe, probably make things worse. Ignore my bad idea

Thanks for warning
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Offline Cosmo Smallpiece

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2021, 03:02:31 pm »
That's really quiet low to nick that exit rope. It's hardly long enough to be worth thieving and seems contrived to actually get folks stranded down there?

Seems like someone trying to get the place closed down through a headline of "Urbexers rescued in breech of lockdown"?

Offline SamMil

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2021, 03:09:13 pm »
I’m heading up to replace it in the next couple of days, I’m also taking my bolting kit and will replace anything that is no good anymore.

Really?? The day a few hours before Welsh lockdown (23rd Oct) there was both a jugging rope and a looped safety rope to clip.
Both these ropes are now in the water. The jugging rope has quite clearly been recently cut (two new frayed points clearly visible).
Luckily all of my party had the skills to ascend back out, I know a lot of people who complete this trip would not be able to ascend the first 2 abs. A call out waiting to happen.

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2021, 03:48:32 pm »
Do you think 3 small/discrete glue in bolts at perhaps about 2.5 m above water, 3.5m and 4.5m would be suitable for emergency bolt ladder out if this recurrs, but not allow vandals to climb down to the canoe, or do you think that's unnecessary bolts spoiling the route? Just thinking if the gonts have done it once... (That wasn't Cofi term of endearment just then)

Edit: sorry to hear that, hope all your party ok, sounds a long trying day
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 03:58:55 pm by Cantclimbtom »
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Offline Keris82

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2021, 04:14:52 pm »
Quote
Both these ropes are now in the water. The jugging rope has quite clearly been recently cut (two new frayed points clearly visible).
Luckily all of my party had the skills to ascend back out, I know a lot of people who complete this trip would not be able to ascend the first 2 abs. A call out waiting to happen.

Omg why on earth would someone want to cut the ropes?!  >:(

Offline SamMil

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2021, 04:18:37 pm »
Possibly, although there is already a lot of stuff in there. I’ll have a look when I put the new rope in this week. Not sure on the quality of that rock face though. I’m happy to put resins in, however at about £10 each this could become expensive pretty quick!
Yes thanks, made the walk back longer as well!

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2021, 04:30:31 pm »
Probably need extra extra extra diligence at the first pitch too, in case the anchors or rope has been modified. I have heard of hostility towards Cwmorthin/go-below, not sure if this is connected
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Offline SamMil

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2021, 05:15:50 pm »
They looked the same to me, I was last there in November before this trip. The rope on the first pitch is at the point where it could do with replacing soon.
There was some hostility towards Miles this time last year, but that was because he was sorting the MO at Cwmorthin out as lockdown kicked off. There hasn’t been anything recently as far as I’m aware.

Online Paul Marvin

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2021, 08:14:37 am »
Can you go back underground over in Wales ?
I dont know where I am going, but will know where I am when I get there.

Offline Digit

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2021, 10:20:58 am »
Can you go back underground over in Wales ?

I think thats a bit of a yes/no situation.  You cannot cross the border into Wales but if you are already here you can meet with people from another single household outdoors.  Which begs the question is a hole in the ground 'outdoors'?

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2021, 10:44:13 am »
Cwmorthin has a lockable gate/door, so that's indoors.
Both Croesor and Rhosydd quarries don't have a door, so clearly can't be indoors and is therefore outdoors. Does it work like that??
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Offline Cosmo Smallpiece

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2021, 11:03:48 am »
There's little/no definition of the terms used in the actual covid legislation that I've seen. Important words like "indoors" and "exercise" are left entirely up the the readers imagination. Boris didn't want a nanny state so didn't want to tell you exactly what you could and couldn't do. This has left left local enforcement in an absolute mess on the legality.

So if the local Welsh Police and Crime Commissioner does not want tourists in Cwm they direct the local Police to issue PCNs on the basis that you are supposed to remain at home. You then have the option of not paying up and requesting a court hearing. Over decades of High Court appeals etc the term "indoors" will one day be legally defined.

So in 10 to 20 years we will finally know whether the 10 miles drive to the start of your 5km jog was lawful. Or whether the walk to the car itself counted as your exercise quota for the day.

Offline Oceanrower

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2021, 11:04:04 am »
But is a gate a door?

Online Paul Marvin

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2021, 11:17:08 am »
Cwmorthin has a lockable gate/door, so that's indoors.
Both Croesor and Rhosydd quarries don't have a door, so clearly can't be indoors and is therefore outdoors. Does it work like that??

Like that about the doors , think thats a good answer
I dont know where I am going, but will know where I am when I get there.

Offline Cosmo Smallpiece

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2021, 11:18:22 am »
Hopefully gates, styles, portals, turnstiles and doorways will all be defined in statute by 2035 or so?

Online Paul Marvin

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2021, 11:19:49 am »
But is a gate a door?

I would say a gate is a barrier either locked or not , if somebody said to me being a Joiner can you come and hang me a door , and I turned up with a gate ? Ha Ha we could go on and on guys great fun !!
I dont know where I am going, but will know where I am when I get there.

Online sinker

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2021, 11:29:17 am »
Cwmorthin has a lockable gate/door, so that's indoors.
Both Croesor and Rhosydd quarries don't have a door, so clearly can't be indoors and is therefore outdoors. Does it work like that??

No one should be underground anywhere yet. Never mind the indoors/outdoors thing (a mine is NOT outdoors...) cave rescue or mountain rescue would go their heads if they had to rescue someone from there. And you wouldn't blame them. "Easing" of lockdown doesn't mean a free-for-all; people still need to exercise some common sense.

Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Offline SamMil

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2021, 12:29:33 pm »
We were told last year that Cwmorthin is technically not an indoor space, guidance from the powers that be was to “wear masks where practical and where you can’t socially distance”. If it was indoors we’d have to wear masks all the time.

Cwmorthin has a lockable gate/door, so that's indoors.
Both Croesor and Rhosydd quarries don't have a door, so clearly can't be indoors and is therefore outdoors. Does it work like that??

No one should be underground anywhere yet. Never mind the indoors/outdoors thing (a mine is NOT outdoors...) cave rescue or mountain rescue would go their heads if they had to rescue someone from there. And you wouldn't blame them. "Easing" of lockdown doesn't mean a free-for-all; people still need to exercise some common sense.
That’s quite a sweeping statement, it does not say in the legislation “thou shalt not go underground” IMO as long as you are sensible and stay within your capabilities and don’t take the mickey, go underground if that’s what you want to do.
CRO and MR never judge people for needing to be rescued (unless you live in the Lake District) they are all volunteers and I know multiple people in local teams who regardless of current restrictions are happy to go out on rescues if needed. They are not there to judge.

Let’s not turn this thread into a debate about restrictions and legislation though. There’s other places for that, it was created to warn people of the current lack of rope in CRTT

Online Katie

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2021, 12:41:53 pm »
Like Sam above I don't believe there is a clear cut 'you can or can't cave' under current guidance. It is open to some interpretation.
Personally I have been caving (with only one other person as per exercise guidelines) and I am a controller on a cave rescue team.
The team I am on have been active during lockdown and don't judge. We are there to get people out of trouble. Not act as the cave police.
Personally i am staying local and doing trips well within my capabilities to lower the risk, but of course it cannot be eliminated.

Online Katie

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2021, 12:47:46 pm »
Quote
Let’s not turn this thread into a debate about restrictions and legislation though. There’s other places for that, it was created to warn people of the current lack of rope in CRTT

Sorry, I haven't helped with this! But I (and I am sure other CRO team members) get fed up with being used to beat people over the head with if they do decide to cave at the moment.
The 'cave rescue will be angry with you' comments annoy me - cave rescuers are cavers too who (mostly) like caving  :)

Offline Oceanrower

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2021, 12:50:16 pm »
Cwmorthin has a lockable gate/door, so that's indoors.
Both Croesor and Rhosydd quarries don't have a door, so clearly can't be indoors and is therefore outdoors. Does it work like that??

No one should be underground anywhere yet. Never mind the indoors/outdoors thing (a mine is NOT outdoors...) cave rescue or mountain rescue would go their heads if they had to rescue someone from there. And you wouldn't blame them. "Easing" of lockdown doesn't mean a free-for-all; people still need to exercise some common sense.

Well. It didn’t take long for the fun police to turn up...

Offline Graigwen

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2021, 02:37:06 pm »
We were told last year that Cwmorthin is technically not an indoor space, guidance from the powers that be was to “wear masks where practical and where you can’t socially distance”. If it was indoors we’d have to wear masks all the time.



I would be interested top know what "powers that be" gave that advice.

The last I heard Natural Resources Wales regarded caving as an indoor activity akin to playing cards or darts.

.

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2021, 03:07:37 pm »
...The last I heard Natural Resources Wales regarded caving as an indoor activity akin to playing cards or darts...
The distinction between pub and cave is already blurred in my memory and guidance like this hardly helps.

Edit, panic over.. if I'm holding a glass it must be a pub
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Online sinker

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Re: Croesor Rhosydd
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2021, 09:43:40 pm »

Well. It didn’t take long for the fun police to turn up...


Nor the d*ckheads either, or so it would seem.
Being sad that 127000 people and counting have already died doesn't make me "fun police" it just wants to make me want to be patient FFS. We have waited this long, a bit longer won't hurt.
Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

 

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