Carbide

[Brains]

Surely the best way to do that is to fit them with small lead boots from standard diving kit, then when they land on water they are pulled under and drown, and leave no bodies about either..... :roll:

 

[Simon Beck]

Carbide has been my primary light source since the beginning, the reasons.....very little can go wrong with a carbide rig...they give off heat, more light than most, if not all electric lights on the market, they're easily repaired (my repair kit's about the size of a match box) and if used right one fill can be made to last 10-12 hours....ok the downsides are the cumbersome generator and pipe, the fact it obviously
dosen't work underwater, or while descending very wet draughty pitchs the most common problem i've had would be ignition after it's had a thorough soaking but feel this is fairly trivial especially when you consider all the shit that can go wrong with an electric rig, OK! so most people cave in groups, so light failure would hardly be the end of the world for the victim, but when soloing in some of the more aquatic systems it could mean the difference between life and death and carbide has definitely been one of the reasons why i undertake long solo trips (a lack of enthusiastic partners as always been the other).

 

[cap n chris]

Sounds pretty unsatisfactory in so far as the places where you least want your light to go out are the places where it is most likely to do just that. Have you given other light sources a good try?

 

[AndyF]

Carbide has been my primary light source since the beginning, the reasons.....very little can go wrong with a carbide rig...

Amongst total carbide failures I've had are:

1) Rivet failing on the the belt loop resulting in no water in the resevoir
2) The end bit falling off the water control, resulting in all the water in the carbide (now that does give off heat!)

Neither fixable below ground.

I'd disagree with the reliability claims. A decent electric rig is fine. I don't carry a repair kit, I carry a spare light these days as as well.

Personally any light system that dosen't work underwater, or while descending very wet draughty pitchs is unsuitable for caving in my books.. Why would I choose a light with those limitations, when I can choose one without..?

A fill lasting 10-12 hours, yes, with constant attention to the water rate, my LED on main beam lasts 15+....and I never have to touch it from going in to coming out.

 

[Les W]

Nothing lights up the bottom of a big pitch like a reved up carbide lamp

this is not necessarily a good thing if you are still at the top

 

[cap n chris]

... or you burn through the rope with your huge flamethrower....

 

[cap n chris]

my repair kit's about the size of a match box

My spare LED light is the same size; although I've never needed to use it in anger since my main LED is super reliable - and total running time is measured in tens of hours.

 

[Simon Beck]

My repair kit is indestructable....how indestructable is your LED?.....That keep this civil guys....by the way!, have any of you guys thought about electro magnetic pulse?

 

[Simon Beck]

I'm sure that it will only take a small number of trips using primarily electric for me to realise how reliable electric lights are these days...but at the present time it's the simplicity of my carbide rig which gives me security to do what i do and i feel i've been doing this long enough to know what's best for me. I do also carry a dive light on my helmet and spare in Nalgene bottle, i rarely use either.

 

[AndyF]

My repair kit is indestructable....how indestructable is your LED?.....That keep this civil guys....by the way!, have any of you guys thought about electro magnetic pulse?

My view is that I'm not too worried about how indestrucatable my LED is. I carry a spare lighting rig (usually a Silva or Petzl set), so I'm not relient on my main light. I've never had to come out on my backup yet, except when I stupidly forgot to charge my light (brain failure rather than equipment!!)

I don't solo either, so lamp failure is not quite such a problem. I think Oldham style lamps are pretty tough, but I'd accept Petzl Duo things are pretty flakey.

I've also seen serious rope damage with a carbide, not great when you are 30m up and find you are on a badly charred rope.

I think, like lead acids and halogens, that LED is the next logic step.

Not sure what you are refering to with "have any of you guys thought about electro magnetic pulse" BTW, could you expand on that...?

 

[Les W]

Not sure what you are refering to with "have any of you guys thought about electro magnetic pulse" BTW, could you expand on that...?

I think he is inferring that in an electromagnetic pulse your lights would be wiped out but his carbide lamp would survive.
However to cause an EMP of the magnitude to affect your lights underground would require a Nuclear exchange over the the Dales/Mendip/Wales etc. :shock:

 

[epik]

I think Oldham style lamps are pretty tough, but I'd accept Petzl Duo things are pretty flakey.

Not going to get into the carbide debate (as it is only any good for making flame throwers - dolmio jar with a hole stabbed in the top and hey presto - be careful when holding as gets hot) but just to stick up for Duo's ive been using one fore caving for ages now and changed it to a 5LED as soon as Petzl made it and it's never failed! It lasts (what seems like) decades, is far lighter than my FX which is now resigned to the attic, and bright enough to light up as far as my eyes can focus and despite my continual attempts to destroy it it still seems to be indestructable and believe me people will tell you i am the least careful person in the world when it comes to kit!

Oldhams on the other hand always seemed to split and piss acid all over our kit about once a year and FX's got memory whereas AA's are cheap and industructable! Even if they are way more unenvironmental than carbide (every hour of AA light you use you burn 2hours+ of energy).

Carbides are warm though and smell nice but LED's rule now!

 

[epik]

I think he is inferring that in an electromagnetic pulse your lights would be wiped out but his carbide lamp would survive.

I like the inferrence that in the event of a nuclear war muddy men with beards and flames on their heads will rule the earth!

Out of interest i'm not sure EMP effects LED's? Anyone know for sure? In all good movies when someone sets off an EMP bomb everyone heads straight for their torches being that all the main lights have gone out - the torches always work!

 

[Hammy]

I'd go further and contend that in addition to carbide systems any waistbelt mounted battery lighting system is now obsolete.

The only argument in their favour that I've heard is that if your helmet drops off mid-pitch then it is still attatched so you don't lose your light at the same time!!

I now cave exclusively with a helmet mounted Duo 14 LED and a backup Tikka XP round my neck so hopefully this won't be a problem! (and of course I'm not so careless as to let my helmet fall off!!)

Oh and if I'm soloing I have a number of other lights tucked around all over the place - I remember only too fondly the day my carbide Explorer experienced total shutdown at the furthest reaches of Tatham Wife when on a solo excursion - coming out on a flickering backup added to the excitement that day for sure!!

 

[cap n chris]

I'd go further and contend that in addition to carbide systems any waistbelt mounted battery lighting system is now obsolete.

The only argument in their favour that I've heard is that if your helmet drops off mid-pitch then it is still attatched so you don't lose your light at the same time!!

Fully agree with you there, Hammy; you can tie the y of your helmet chin strap to the elasticated band of your Petzl backup round your neck if you just happen to be one of those people who like to take their helmet off mid-pitch and drop it to the ground.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Am I the only one who gets slightly irritated by being told what I should use for my caving? Provided it isn't harming the cave environment or the people I am caving with, it is my choice to use whatever I see fit to use when caving. Whatever suits me best and whatever I am most comfortable with is what I will use. You tell me 'nobody uses that anymore', or 'that's obsolete nowadays'. Well, sorry, but as long as equipment is available and people use it, it isn't obsolete. There's also the matter of cost, and whether what I have at the moment is still working. If it works, and I don't want to spend money on replacing it, then why should I? Away from caving we get the same thing. My mobile phone would probably be called 'obsolete' by some people, after all - shock horror - all it does is receive and transmit phone calls! No built-in camera, not WAP-enabled, blah blah blah.

End of rant.

 

[cap n chris]

For a lightweight, environmentally friendly, sustainable (what a load of bollocks "sustainability" is, eh?!) method of illuminating cave passages has anyone tried setting up mirrors in alignment so that light bounces of one, onto another, etc. etc., lighting the way through the cave?


No, thought not. :wink:

 

[cap n chris]

....as long as equipment is available and people use it, it isn't obsolete....

In the case of carbide, Peter, my feeling is that it SHOULD be obsolete, given the hassle/pitfalls/pollution. More to the point, it DESERVES to be obsolete.

 

[graham]

I like the inferrence that in the event of a nuclear war muddy men with beards and flames on their heads will rule the earth!

It's true, though, does any one of us doubt it.

 

[AndyF]

I'd have to admit that in the event of nuclear holcaust, whether my caving lamp would still work would not be top of my priorities...

Probably wouldn't be able to charge it again after anyway...

Probably more worrried about where I would get breakfast if Bernies is flattened...or running out of beer....