global warming

[langcliffe]

Even though sea level has risen by 130 metres
since the maximum glaciation
we are still at a time of extreme low sea levels
there is a rise of two hundred metres
waiting to bring us back to long term normal.

I'm not sure that there is a meaningful "normal" in geological terms. The main reason why sea levels are low at the moment is because we have large areas of continental crust positioned around the polar regions, where snow and ice can accumulate, which is unusual. Sea levels also obviously depend on the amount of new oceanic crust relative to older oceanic crust.

 

[Elaine]

Even though sea level has risen by 130 metres
since the maximum glaciation
we are still at a time of extreme low sea levels
there is a rise of two hundred metres
waiting to bring us back to long term normal.

I'm not sure that there is a meaningful "normal" in geological terms. The main reason why sea levels are low at the moment is because we have large areas of continental crust positioned around the polar regions, where snow and ice can accumulate, which is unusual. Sea levels also obviously depend on the amount of new oceanic crust relative to older oceanic crust.

I think Whitelackington is refering to the sea level in late Cretaceous times that were 200m higher than they are now.
However, a lots of this extra height of sea level was due to the increased activity of hot spots and spreading ridge activity that led to doming of the sea floor around the magamtic areas. This 'doming' would reduce the volume of the ocean basis and cause the sea level to rise.

 

[AndyF]

The sad thing is that nothing is actually going to get done to fix this in time.

I still see a fairly simple "race" here, either we run out of fossil fuel before the atmosphere is sc***d, resulting in collapse of industrial cicivlisation, or there is catastrophic collapse of the the ecosystem/weather system before the oil runs out and we can't grow enough food to feed ourselves.

Either scenario is not good. In 20 years time people will look back at Blair and say, "he talked about it, but did nothing".

Add £5 tax to air passengers and build three new runways? Good thinking..... that should help.... 

 

[Elaine]

We cannot just blame Blair. There are many of us who know perfectly well what will happen and why it will happen and we do very little about it.

 

[paul]

We cannot just blame Blair. There are many of us who know perfectly well what will happen and why it will happen and we do very little about it.

Plus politicians always have their eye on the next election - votes come first not the long term viability Planet...

 

[spikey]

We cannot just blame Blair. There are many of us who know perfectly well what will happen and why it will happen and we do very little about it.

Nor can we just blame aeroplanes, they are simply a contributory factor.

I have to fly about once every 6 weeks for my job, and drive about 40-50k miles per year, so unfortunately I probably have a larger than average personal "carbon footprint". However, I have a duty to my family to put food on the table, and pay the bills, so until "green" cars and ultra efficient aeroplanes (eg the new Airbus A380 apparently emits around 20% less nasty stuff than current planes, but it would seem needs new runways in places), I personally have little option.

I would love to be greener, but there are few avenues open to me.

(BTW, my house is about as green as it gets, so I am trying)

 

[cap n chris]

This has been mentioned before and it's worth mentioning again. There's loads you can do to be greener but they all require a conscious sacrifice (no pain, no gain, as they say).

Things to do to save the planet (as published in the Environmental Section of the Financial Times, believe it or not!):

Stop buying things (i.e. limit your purchases only to necessities)
Don't drive anywhere for fun (i.e. holidays, day trips)
Don't fly anywhere for fun (i.e. holidays)
Don't have children
Get sterilised just to be sure
Die young

Doing all of the above means you don't have to recycle polythene bags at Tescos, BTW, so it's certainly worth it.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Even though sea level has risen by 130 metres
since the maximum glaciation
we are still at a time of extreme low sea levels
there is a rise of two hundred metres
waiting to bring us back to long term normal.

I'm not sure that there is a meaningful "normal" in geological terms. The main reason why sea levels are low at the moment is because we have large areas of continental crust positioned around the polar regions, where snow and ice can accumulate, which is unusual. Sea levels also obviously depend on the amount of new oceanic crust relative to older oceanic crust.

I think Whitelackington is refering to the sea level in late Cretaceous times that were 200m higher than they are now.
However, a lots of this extra height of sea level was due to the increased activity of hot spots and spreading ridge activity that led to doming of the sea floor around the magamtic areas. This 'doming' would reduce the volume of the ocean basis and cause the sea level to rise.

High on the North Downs we have some curious early Pleistocene gravel deposits:

"It is possible, however, that the high-level Netley Heath and Headley Heath deposits of Surrey may represent remnants of once more extensive marine formations of this period."

Headley Heath is around 180 metres above the current sea level.

 

[wormster]

Stop buying things (i.e. limit your purchases only to necessities)
Don't drive anywhere for fun (i.e. holidays, day trips)
Don't fly anywhere for fun (i.e. holidays)
Don't have children
Get sterilised just to be sure
Die young

Stop buying things: NO way that would mean no CAVING KIT

Dont drive: NO caving

Don't fly: NO foreign caving

No children: that's the next generation of cavers you're talikng about.

Get sterilised: Naff off nobdys comming within 6 miles of my testicles with a knife.

Die young: C 'n C YOU should have been strangled at birth. :tease:

your argument takes away ALL the things in life that I for one enjoy,

whilst I realise we SHOLUD reduce, reuse and re-cycle, we've stuffed it matey.

how many times are we going to have this pointless conversation? humankind's on the way out and the hampsters are going to become the dominant species.

 

[cap n chris]

I think you're missing the point, Wormster; firstly, it's not my argument - I've merely highlighted it. Your reaction to the points merely reinforces the general conclusion which is that individual human selfishness, multiplied by the present population, condemns the world's future population to predictable hardships. Put simply, there is no solution to runaway global population increase in the face of dwindling resources - how many people have noticed that the news headlines about inflation/interest rates are directly linked to the cost of fuel? - goods and services are going to the highest bidder, the poor get sidelined (no changes there): as national gas/oil reserves peter out and the cost of living rises inexorably, do you really think that people will really want to revert to cold winters?

Also I think you'll find that the vast majority of people are over the moon about this warm winter weather. Furthermore no sane person would vote for tax increases.

 

[Elaine]

High on the North Downs we have some curious early Pleistocene gravel deposits:

"It is possible, however, that the high-level Netley Heath and Headley Heath deposits of Surrey may represent remnants of once more extensive marine formations of this period."

Headley Heath is around 180 metres above the current sea level.

Not sure I understand. The Pleistocene is from about 1.8 million years ago to the present. The chalk of the North Downs were formed during the high sea levels of the Cretaceous - at a guess up to about 70-80 million years ago(?) Are you saying that there were marine deposits laid down on these two Heaths relatively recently? Or that they were transported there as glacial till deposits?
This is all too confusing for me, I need some chocolate. I also need to change my jeans as during my day on the farm I seem to have been in contact with something more repugnant than the usual foul things I smell of.

 

[Hughie]

how many times are we going to have this pointless conversation? humankind's on the way out and the hampsters are going to become the dominant species.

I very much doubt that - we'll have eaten the little beggars!

 

[truescrumpy]

also need to change my jeans as during my day on the farm I seem to have been in contact with something more repugnant than the usual foul things I smell of.


that sounds fishy ...wonder what that could be  

 

[Peter Burgess]

also need to change my jeans as during my day on the farm I seem to have been in contact with something more repugnant than the usual foul things I smell of.


that sounds fishy ...wonder what that could be  

Please!!!

Are you saying that there were marine deposits laid down on these two Heaths relatively recently?

Precisely. There's no evidence the ice sheets ever came south of Finchley. (I don't blame them - they could use the M25 nowadays, though).

 

[Peter Burgess]

Headley Heath is a few pixels beyond my right ear in my avatar, roughly on top of the leftmost hill.

 

[wormster]

I think you're missing the point, Wormster; firstly, it's not my argument - I've merely highlighted it. Your reaction to the points merely reinforces the general conclusion which is that individual human selfishness, multiplied by the present population, condemns the world's future population to predictable hardships. Put simply, there is no solution to runaway global population increase in the face of dwindling resources - how many people have noticed that the news headlines about inflation/interest rates are directly linked to the cost of fuel? - goods and services are going to the highest bidder, the poor get sidelined (no changes there): as national gas/oil reserves peter out and the cost of living rises inexorably, do you really think that people will really want to revert to cold winters?

Also I think you'll find that the vast majority of people are over the moon about this warm winter weather. Furthermore no sane person would vote for tax increases.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH you're too easy to wind up matey

 

[Brains]

Dont forget, if the UK were to go carbon neutral NOW, China would have made up the "deficit" in under 2 years. Bio fuels made from 100% of what grows locally (ethanols type stuff with minimal wastage) would go a long way to helping, but when the rest of the world is racing to hell in a handcart, charging us more taxes and giving us more restictions is just pissing on our chips AND making us pay for the displeasure of it! Accept it, were doomed, born to die - like every other individual, species and speck of life on this rock, but with luck we may get a choice of how... dribbing into my eco friendly mushroom derived coffee substitute, or shot in the back by a jealous lover at my bicentennial birthday party.... How would you choose to shrug off this mortal coil?

 

[cap n chris]

:doubt: But, but,.... I'm not wound up. I got the distinct impression that you were, however.

 

[AndyF]

Furthermore no sane person would vote for tax increases.

Well at the last election they voted for more tax and war crimes..... 

 

[Roger W]

To keep the whole discussion on a purely practical note, should we all be going in for cave diving courses?