Mossdale-Black Keld

[Emsy]

No further progress has been made in Black Keld. The current limit hasn't been reached in recent years as a significant amount of relining needs to be carried out through the end sumps. The most recent pointy- end diver has been waiting for the right conditions, plus other projects have been taking priority.

White Keld - this has recently been extended from its previous limit in Sump 5 to Sump 7. A survey will be carried out soon, as will a closer examination of the end leads.

Hope that helps.

 

[Goydenman]

Useful to know thanks Pitlamp and Emsy - look forward to seeing where the WK progress has taken it on the survey

 

[Joe Parsons]

Ah, a progress report. Good stuff. It would be interesting to see the updated surface overview map for the current limit of BK and WK with sump 7 showing. Always has interested me how clear the water is in WK compared to the black peaty stuff in BK. Keep us informed 

 

[Joe Parsons]

Bit of a report / request for help. Last night I continued my surface search / general buggering about on the land immediately North East of Black Keld (take SE 988 705 as an approximate centre) and found one or two holes in the floor that I will examine more thoroughly when time allows. Unless, someone can give me a definite answer that said holes are of no interest. SD985783, alt 355m. In a mainly grassed over escartment, a few rocks appear on their own. Narrow horizontal opening under rocks into chamber approx 1m high, 3m wide and 2m long, with low bedding going off down for approx 4m until I cant see further. No sign of previous dig. SD991703, alt 415m. In a shallow shake hole I noticed a draught in the snow the other week. On investigation, a 30cm hole in the mud with shallow fissure below approx 1m deep. In same shakehole though, a large flat stone slab buried under approx. 20cm earth and sod. Have dug through sod and earth, and lifted stone slab to reveal vertical fissure approx 10 metres deep, 40cm wide, extending for approx 4m in length to where fallen rock and mud (from me digging) blocks view. Sign of water in the bottom. No sign of previous dig. SD993704 (could be Blizzard Pot?) In a shallow line of shakeholes parallel to wall with mine workings and tip, two draughting holes were noticed in the snow. On investigation, one leads to a few dead rabbits approx 1 metre deep. Other hole(approx 2m from first) leads to very small chamber approx 2 metres deep, with possible horizontal way on. Unable to see sufficiently as entrance hole is only about 25cm currently. So, am I just being too keen?

 

[Goydenman]

You can never be too keen that's what exploring is about - just keep learning along the way that's the fun of it. If you are soloing sounds like you are I always leave location and expected time out with someone back at base. New found entrances are notorious for being unstable so don't let your excitement push you beyond first considering shoring it or waiting till you get someone with you. See you soon. Good work 

 

[grahams]

I've long wondered about the morphology and hydrology of Gasson's Series of Langcliffe Pot. As I understand it, Gasson's is large and contains several inlets and sumps. Does anyone know how these passages were formed and has any water tracing of the inlets been performed? The end of Gasson's Series appears to be about 150 feet below ground. There are no signs in today's landscape (that I know of) of any sinks that could account for such a well developed series of passages. Whilst Gasson's is separated from the surface by impervious layers, is it possible that the original source of water was none other than Mossdale Beck?

 

[grahams]

Here's another question that's long bothered me:
The area to the South of Mossdale - Black Keld consists of a huge amount of very thickly bedded limestone. The only resurgences are Davy Keld, Dib Scar, a spring just downstream of Ghaistrill's Strid and Low Mill. None of these is much more than a trickle. So where does all the water go?

 

[langcliffe]

Here's another question that's long bothered me:
The area to the South of Mossdale - Black Keld consists of a huge amount of very thickly bedded limestone. The only resurgences are Davy Keld, Dib Scar, a spring just downstream of Ghaistrill's Strid and Low Mill. None of these is much more than a trickle. So where does all the water go?

There's enough water at Low Mill to run a fish farm. The spring downstream of Ghaistrill's is also a reasonable size. We do know that when the Duke's Watercourse broke it's banks in the 1950s and water sank in the valley it emerged at Low Mill.

 

[Joe Parsons]

Here's another question that's long bothered me:
The area to the South of Mossdale - Black Keld consists of a huge amount of very thickly bedded limestone. The only resurgences are Davy Keld, Dib Scar, a spring just downstream of Ghaistrill's Strid and Low Mill. None of these is much more than a trickle. So where does all the water go?

Which water specifically? Also don't forget the small resurgences of How Beck, and Miles House (which doesn't have an official name, but is located at Mile House Farm) Both of which can flow heavily in wet weather. The Mile House resurgence supplied the water for the house on a permanent basis, until 4 years ago, when the water suddenly stopped! It now only flows in wet weather.

 

[Mike Wood]

I've long wondered about the morphology and hydrology of Gasson's Series of Langcliffe Pot. As I understand it, Gasson's is large and contains several inlets and sumps. Does anyone know how these passages were formed and has any water tracing of the inlets been performed? The end of Gasson's Series appears to be about 150 feet below ground. There are no signs in today's landscape (that I know of) of any sinks that could account for such a well developed series of passages. Whilst Gasson's is separated from the surface by impervious layers, is it possible that the original source of water was none other than Mossdale Beck?

Seems to me that the water from Swarthgill Hole goes to the New Fearnought Streamway, and probably originally formed the dry passages at least as far as the Agora in Gasson's Series. Don't know if a positive dye-test has ever been accomplished though, so it might be bollocks.

 

[Simon Beck]

Have pondered the source of new fearnought myself, having visited this region of the cave twice.... Can't say i have much experience of tracing myself so never felt i was in a position to undertake such an experiment, but if in the future any persons with the necessary skills would like to have a go, then i'll be your guide.......si-b

 

[Joe Parsons]

Simon, you might have the answer I am looking for - I am after a survey of Langcliffe. Any thoughts?

 

[Simon Beck]

I'd have a word with a longtime member of ulsa, or someone influential within the organisation etc, cos the only place you'll find the necessary detail you are after, are the master surveys that were drawn in relation with the original survey of the cave. Maybe copies exist of these, but i don't know, i know a few folk who may beable to help, i will pm you their names if you like, albeit you probably already know them anyway. By the way, the above you probably already knew anyway, but hope it was of some help............si-b

 

[Simon Beck]

With regards the above predicted source of the new fearnought streamway... I'm only going off a visual memory of the amount of water that descended the streamway and sank in the dementor sump, but the volume is very similar to that sinking at swarthgill hole. 

 

[Joe Parsons]

Once again I am bumping this back up the list. It would be interesting to learn how many people are currently working on anything in the system at any location.

 

[braveduck]

A map showing all these risings that have been named would be usefull!

 

[Pitlamp]

Some of them are detailed in the CDG Northern Sump Index 1995, beyond what can reasonably be expected to appear in Northern Caves.

Mind you, if anyone wants to give further info here on those which aren't, it'd really help the production of the new index, which is well underway as I type. As with the previous index we hope to make it of interest to cavers generally, not just us bubble blowers. This can't be done thoroughly without a lot of help - so if anyone wanted to post more info here we'll try to make good use of it in the new index.

 

[braveduck]

Incidentaly,Low Mill rising which feeds the fish farm,this one I do know where it is.
It now has a green cover over it.Is this so it can not be seen from space (Google Earth) etc.?