Standardisation of some caving statements eg. i can do srt

[droid]

You might get a shock if you make it back over here and get taken down Titan or Vulcan....

 

[robjones]

Are whaletails still used in the US? They used to be marketed as the ultimate heatsinks. Only ever saw one used in the UK; had a go with it - seemed especially prone to catching and snagging on every other piece of gear.

 

[Amy]

You might get a shock if you make it back over here and get taken down Titan or Vulcan....

I want to do Gaping Gill, and I've heard of Titan but now I am super interested in Vulcan because...well...Vulcan! Need I say more!? Live long and prosper!

Are whaletails still used in the US? They used to be marketed as the ultimate heatsinks. Only ever saw one used in the UK; had a go with it - seemed especially prone to catching and snagging on every other piece of gear.

I think whales like using their tales I'm pretty sure whaling is against the law...
(aka no, as far as I am aware it was a quick fad that failed very fast due to numerous issues long before my time and if you can find one buy it as a collector's piece for the memorabilia if you like collecting rappel devices)
I found this web page from someone who made one for funsies I guess http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Rappel/FixMultiPages/FixMulti409.html

 

[langcliffe]

http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml

I'm delighted to see Gary's virtual museum has appeared back in cyber space. Having donated several items myself, I was most disappointed when it was taken down.

 

[Fulk]

robjones quote:

Are whaletails still used in the US? They used to be marketed as the ultimate heatsinks. Only ever saw one used in the UK; had a go with it - seemed especially prone to catching and snagging on every other piece of gear.

Apropos the whale tail, my abiding memory of this is watching somebody ? a well-known person in the caving world ? kneeling on the edge of Malham Cove, about to descend as part of a test to see how hot descenders get on a controlled descent, when someone said ?Err, A??, I think it?s threaded wrongly? (although it was threaded the ?obvious? way). So A?? came back from the edge and tried a small descent on a clifflet above the Cove . . . sure enough, as soon as his weight came on the device, it flicked off the rope and he fell a couple of feet . . .

 

[graham]

The whaletail was essentially an Aussie device that came to Europe with Julia James & Neil Montgomery back in the 70's, though it may have originated in the US some time earlier.

Very smooth & nice to use on big pitches but a pain to carry anywhere.

 

[Leclused]

Quote - Dagobert
"I didn't say that the simple got hot engough. I said that with a simple you stop at the moment you start to have a hand or arm ache. With a stop you continue and then the heating builds up due the less pressure on the deadman handle.

That's my point of view of course"

Sorry still not worked out the 'quote' thing.

I see your point, but presuming you have the dead end of the rope in your stronger hand. With a stop your weaker hand will be holding the handle, yes it will get tired faster, and probably yes resulting in you slackening your hold on the handle closing the cam, creating more friction. Now I might be wrong here, but using a Simple you still have the rope in the stronger hand. Allowing you to abseil much further before getting a sore hand/wrist..... surely this would also add to the heat of the device meaning by the time you feel the need to stop on your stronger hand it will also be damn hot.

Could be, but you can control your speed of course so that you don't go to fast to build up too much heat. Losing grip on the deadman handle can occur without you noticing it and by this creation more friction and that is imho the "danger". 

Don't ge me wrong, I also have a stop and in some case it is very usefull.

Dagobert

 

[Joe90]

Yeah i agree, if used without the deadman handle pulled in fully it would create much more friction/heat.

 

[jarvist]

Yeah i agree, if used without the deadman handle pulled in fully it would create much more friction/heat.

Well I don't! Friction yes, but heat no.
All of the energy of your abseil is being turned into heat and wear.
Release the handle and you'll come to a stop (or go slower), the amount of energy as Kinetic Energy is tiny (prob about equiv to a ~2m drop of potential energy). Since the handle makes the rope crimp itself between the bobbins, the tiny amount of extra heat will be split between the two bobbins either way.

Not only that but the Stop clearly has a much larger thermal mass compared to a Simple (steel lower bobbin, big fat metal handle) so if anything it will be better from a rope-heating perspective (that said, more energy will go into pulverising the aluminium wheels on the bobbin...).

 

[Roger W]

So maybe what we need is a Stop/Simple/whatever with great big aluminium cooling fins to dissipate the heat...  :-\

Then you can generate as much friction as you like.   

 

[hyweldavies]

Are whaletails still used in the US? They used to be marketed as the ultimate heatsinks. Only ever saw one used in the UK; had a go with it - seemed especially prone to catching and snagging on every other piece of gear.

Can't imagine who would use such a daft thing
.... wonder if I've still got it.

 

[robjones]

It was his! [upward arrow].  At the same time he was using Gibbs ascenders, which I also borrowed - also memorable items. 1982-ish. Caving Supplies sold a very wide range of metalwork in those days before UK SRT standardised on a narrow range of gear. 

All collector's pieces now it seems Hywel! 

Cheers, Rob

 

[pwhole]

I recently dropped Titan to the Event Horizon with a Stop on some brand-new dry 8mm, and nearly filled my pants, it was so scary. Even with 70m of rope below me, I started sliding slowly down without even touching the handle. I know they aren't rated for less than 8.5mm, but I'd been assured it would be 'fine'. It wasn't.

I ended up with both hands on the spare end of the rope, and with it flipped over my right shoulder too - my left shoulder/armpit 'operated' the handle, doing as much as I could to keep it fully 'on', with little success. Thankfully, the heat wasn't too bad, but at least I got a feeling of what a non-locking descender feels like, and to me at least, it wasn't pleasant.

 

[Addy]

A mate still has a whaletail descender - bought in about 1979 from Chris Bradshaw of Rocksport fame (Mendip - above the bus station until the place caught fire!).

I still have a Gibbs ascender (probably one of a pair  bought around the same time fromCaving Supplies) that is still used as a climbing shunt. An excellent piece of kit!