cap n chris
Well-known member
How would an easily/quickly set up US haul system bring a casualty up past ledges/lips like the ones in the photos in the Natural Well trip report thread?
Standardisation of some caving statements eg. i can do srt
- Thread starter hrock
- Start date
I had a whole thing written out then found a video haha.
Here's a good video from NCRC level 1 training, they're using a 3:1 doing hauls and lowers, shows how it works here pretty well. Basically, liter attendant makes sure they dont bump into shit and manovers them as needed.
Cave rescue high angle systems
Here's a good video from NCRC level 1 training, they're using a 3:1 doing hauls and lowers, shows how it works here pretty well. Basically, liter attendant makes sure they dont bump into shit and manovers them as needed.
Cave rescue high angle systems
Fair enough. I assume with rebelay and deviation practice I would be though, yes?cap 'n chris said:
Interestingly, depending as to what we were doing here, I think the same would apply in reverse. The lip passings we do since you all hate the rope touching the rock
would be rough on you potentially, yet it's common here. We'll even have complete underhangs where you have nothing to put your feet on to get off of the lip of the wall to move the ascenders up. With single pitches 200-300ft range being normal on thick very static rope, stops would have a rough time of it (people don't use stops in TAG for a reason! they suck for our stuff!) which the only way around it would be training on a rack or sticking to shorter stuff. That's also why we tandom climb which tandoming on the bottom isn't much different from climibng normally but tandoming top is a big difference at times. Also here it's basically a requirement to carry a QAS - we don't have anywhere for you to clip in cowstails to for your extra point of attachment when moving around. Also a very handy piece for passing lips especially when you have a frog system.
barrabus
New member
Amy said:Interestingly, depending as to what we were doing here, I think the same would apply in reverse. The lip passings we do since you all hate the rope touching the rock
You do have to do that here in the UK sometimes where there is nowhere convenient to put bolts in initially apart from in horizontal rock at the pitch head. However there would be a re-belay a couple of metres below. Placing a re-belay would of course mean it is easier as you don't have the full weight of the pitch rope pulling down, only the weight of a couple of metres.
Examples in the Dales would include Rowten Pot and Cow Pot.
cap n chris
Well-known member
The video haul system involves a huge team; how would you do a 1:1 rescue of a casualty over the lips/edges at Natural Well? Does US rigging style mean that 1:1 rescue of a casualty is effectively ruled out? (1:1 means one rescuer to rescue one casualty).
Leclused
Active member
With single pitches 200-300ft range being normal on thick very static rope, stops would have a rough time of it (people don't use stops in TAG for a reason! they suck for our stuff!) which the only way around it would be training on a rack or sticking to shorter stuff.
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Thicker (11mm or more) or stiff rope can be rigged in "C" in Petzl Simple. I never tried/used it in my petzl stop but i think it should work too. Thin (8mm) rope are rigged with your braking carabiner in the hole of the petzl simple instead of in the attach carabiner of the simple to the d-ring . So desceding with a petzl simple can be done on almost all common used diameters of ropes varying from 8mm to 12/13mm . Only your way of rigging is differnt in the device. These are the things you learn in a course
So no training required to use a rack, however even that is learned in the same course
Dagobert
[/quote]
Thicker (11mm or more) or stiff rope can be rigged in "C" in Petzl Simple. I never tried/used it in my petzl stop but i think it should work too. Thin (8mm) rope are rigged with your braking carabiner in the hole of the petzl simple instead of in the attach carabiner of the simple to the d-ring . So desceding with a petzl simple can be done on almost all common used diameters of ropes varying from 8mm to 12/13mm . Only your way of rigging is differnt in the device. These are the things you learn in a course
So no training required to use a rack, however even that is learned in the same course
Dagobert
hrock
New member
shorely the fact that you looked at the list and said i can do all that but not rebealys and devations so i will ask some one about them is just what was the intended out come of this (you are as you say competent on home soil) and might have got a shock if haveing toled every one you could do srt fine and went caving almost any were in Europe. but by looking at a list of what you are saying when you say i am competent you have not just got strung up on your first trip.
although most amercans know we do it all differently and vise verser so i would have asked you about this befor the trip any way.
please dont tar all of us with the same brush i cave on a rack as it is good for abseiling were as a stop is good for other things and **** for abseiling
although most amercans know we do it all differently and vise verser so i would have asked you about this befor the trip any way.
please dont tar all of us with the same brush i cave on a rack as it is good for abseiling were as a stop is good for other things and **** for abseiling
Alex
Well-known member
Why do these threads get so far beyond the original point?
How come its not just simple to ask: "How many SRT trips you have been on?" and ask em to list a few caves they have been on. That gives me a good idea of both quantity of experiance as well as the quality as simply naming the caves gives me some idea and I would often know what is involved with a specific cave in the Yourkshire Dales.
How come its not just simple to ask: "How many SRT trips you have been on?" and ask em to list a few caves they have been on. That gives me a good idea of both quantity of experiance as well as the quality as simply naming the caves gives me some idea and I would often know what is involved with a specific cave in the Yourkshire Dales.
Penguin
New member
Leclused said:
I'm interested to know more about this. Can you give more detail on this method of rigging a Simple on 8mm rope? The only hole i can think of is the attachment hole, and i don't think the new Simples with the plastic gate have a big enough hole to put an extra karabiner through.
Leclused
Active member
Penguin said:
That's correct what you are saying. In the new models of Petzl simple this will not work, the plastic is in the way. But there is solution (from Petzl) for that. It is called the 'The Freino"!
http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/special-aluminum-carabiners/freino
You attach the simple with the twist-lock Freino to the d-ring and than the braking rope goes through the friction spur to give extra friction power.
Does that give you an idea?
Dagobert
Morning hroc,
I'm not trying to wind you up, take the piss, patronize you or anything like that; this post is meant purely in the spirit of enquiry.
I infer from what you said above ? but might of course be drawing the wrong conclusion ? that you don't like Stops; would you mind telling us why?
Thank you.
I'm not trying to wind you up, take the piss, patronize you or anything like that; this post is meant purely in the spirit of enquiry.
I infer from what you said above ? but might of course be drawing the wrong conclusion ? that you don't like Stops; would you mind telling us why?
Thank you.
Leclused
Active member
Fulk said:I infer from what you said above ? but might of course be drawing the wrong conclusion ? that you don't like Stops; would you mind telling us why?
Thank you.
I know one reason why a stop can be hated. When a stop is used on long drops and the deadman handle is not fully pressed the risk of burning the rope exists, especially when the rope is dry. A few years ago we burned 65m rope during one of our expeditions in the Aniallara system.
langcliffe
Well-known member
I began using a Stop when they were first distributed in this country and used it happily for many, many years. But six years ago I inherited a Simple from Mike Wooding and tried that out. After a few trips gaining familiarity with it, it became my descender of choice for the following reasons:
1. I find it gives me a far smoother ride
2. Lacking the handle, I found it to be less clunky and less prone to getting caught in other bits of kit
3. I don't get hand-ache or wrist-ache on long pitches.
4. I find it easier to use on tight pitches as one doesn't need two hands.
On the down side, I find that I have to hard-lock everywhere, whereas previously I almost always used a soft-lock.
However, this is just my experience with two different bits of kit, and I wouldn't dream of trying to persuade anybody else that it would be the right choice for them.
1. I find it gives me a far smoother ride
2. Lacking the handle, I found it to be less clunky and less prone to getting caught in other bits of kit
3. I don't get hand-ache or wrist-ache on long pitches.
4. I find it easier to use on tight pitches as one doesn't need two hands.
On the down side, I find that I have to hard-lock everywhere, whereas previously I almost always used a soft-lock.
However, this is just my experience with two different bits of kit, and I wouldn't dream of trying to persuade anybody else that it would be the right choice for them.
