What do you wear to stay warm underground?

[maxb727]

This weekend we went caving on a large group trip which wasn?t moving the fastest. It was wet, muddy, crawly, SRT and generally all very fun. One of the group wore the following:

Long sleeve base layer
Lycra leggings (all we had with us)
Polartec vest (same material as an AV furry)
AV thick furry
Oversuit
Gloves
Balaclava
Buff

And they were still really cold throughout most of the trip.

What items of clothing do you swear by to stay warm underground especially on trips which are moving slowly so you can?t warm up easily.

Were they wearing too many layers and was that preventing them getting warm?

Others in the group had neofleeces on but we didn?t have them with us.

Cheers


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[mikem]

Split into smaller groups so you can keep moving...

 

[Ian Ball]

I find a mug of tea and a flapjack warms me up.

 

[tobyk]

I?m guessing this is Maxine, Toby here.
To be honest I was still quite chilly in my neofleece. Emma on the other hand was boiling in her wetsuit.
I?ve found previously if I wear a long sleeve baselayer I get cold especially if it gets wet, as it interferes with the fleece wicking away moisture and trapping warm air in the fibres next to the skin. I might be wrong but I?ve heard with AV furrys you?re best wearing them right next to the skin and nothing else, never tried it myself.
You can get neoprene cuffs which keep wrists warm, which also help to warm your hands.
You could go old school and start caving in a wetsuit all the time.
Other strategies I use when you can?t move much to generate a bit of heat, fist/toe clenches, legging swinging, running on the spot etc
As already suggested carry a hot drink such as a small flask would be a dream!

 

[Fjell]

Fat. It?s fully organic too.

 

[Pitlamp]

Those cuff pieces are good. If you wear gloves on a wet trip, neoprene gloves will be better than alternatives.

On trips where long delays are expected I've carried a short length of hosepipe or PVC tube (available from Ashfield DIY in Settle, if you're in the Dales and need a bit). When you have an enforced stop put one end of the pipe in your mouth and feed the other end down your oversuit. Breathe in through the nose and out through the pipe, so that air warmed by the lungs goes inside the oversuit. You might look weird but your overall heat loss will be quite a lot less. It's very light to carry (perhaps secured around a helmet if you're not taking a personal bag) and the price is right.

 

[PeteHall]

Good tip with the hosepipe 

 

[Cavematt]

When we were surveying Excalibur (involving lying flat out in liquid mud for several hours at a time and going nowhere fast), I found those little heat packs (the gel ones with the metal disc you snap to activate, and then boil to recharge) were really useful to stuff down my oversuit. Watch out though, they get pretty hot!

I also used one of those charcoal burning box things which gives out less heat but lasts hours. very light and takes up very little space.

Years ago I saw a Beaver Body-Guard suit going mega-cheap in Bernies (?25 I think) and bought it; it's essentially a full body very thin stretchy thermal suit to wear under normal undersuit. It's absolutely fantastic, but I only wear it if I'm expecting to get extremely cold on a trip.

http://www.beaversports.co.uk/Catalogue/Category/148?cat=rash-vests-suits

At ?70 RRP it's pretty pricey though.

 

[Pitlamp]

You mentioned a long sleeved base layer - I've found that the ones which incorporate Merino wool are a lot better.

 

[Badlad]

What type of oversuit?  That makes a big difference on the wet/muddy trips you describe.  The woven nylon, AV/ALP type seem to hold the cold when wet and muddy and you're not moving fast.  Plastic suits seem to keep you much warmer under those conditions.

It is very noticeable on one of our digs.  If it is wet and muddy with a fair bit of hanging about you'll gradually see everyone start turning up in plastic Warmbacs even if they normally wear nylon suits. 

Then again people's resistance to cold differs widely.  We're often joined by one of those legendary cave diver types who doesn't seem to feel the cold at all - even in some pretty crappy gear  :bow:

 

[skippy]

If its any consolation Max..My hands were bloody freezing on Saturday
Its quite interesting what Toby has advised re AV undersuits being worn next to the skin. I may try that next time.

 

[JoshW]

What type of oversuit?  That makes a big difference on the wet/muddy trips you describe.  The woven nylon, AV/ALP type seem to hold the cold when wet and muddy and you're not moving fast.  Plastic suits seem to keep you much warmer under those conditions.

It is very noticeable on one of our digs.  If it is wet and muddy with a fair bit of hanging about you'll gradually see everyone start turning up in plastic Warmbacs even if they normally wear nylon suits. 

Then again people's resistance to cold differs widely.  We're often joined by one of those legendary cave diver types who doesn't seem to feel the cold at all - even in some pretty crappy gear  :bow:

Surely he?s not getting cold because he?s always just so busy!

 

[Leclused]

Take a speleoponcho with you to stay warm while waiting

https://sites.google.com/site/speleovig/Bons-plans/atelier-bricolage/burkannette

 

[aricooperdavis]

I second Pitlamp's merino recommendation; it's pricey but a thick (i.e. 250g/m2) long sleeved top and leggings make a huge difference.

So when I'm in the Dachstein and anticipate hanging around it'll be:

- Merino 250 long sleeved top
- Merino 250 leggings
- PolarTec 200 undersuit
- Nylon oversuit
- Buff (I intend to upgrade to a merino or thermal buff)
- Bridgedale liner socks in wetsocks in wellies
- Powerstretch gloves in gauntlets (I'm not happy with this solution as it's a real pain for bolting...)

Then if you need to stop you can pull up the buff up over your head, put a synthetic insulating jacket on (an ancient knackered Rab Xenon that I don't mind ruining), and get in a group shelter. If you're worryingly cold you can then get a brew kit out and have something warm to eat/drink.

With all this I *still* get chilly hands, but generally the rest of me is absolutely fine, if not too warm because I'm reluctant to remove layers whilst moving  :-[

 

[paul]

I wear a thin fleece top under my PowerStretch furry suit and Meander PVC oversuit rather than AV nylon one if I think I will be hanging around underground (or on the surface if it comes to that). It is noticeable that on damp trips the thin fleece top is pretty dry afterwards when getting changed as any moisture has been wicked away by the furry suit and been dried by body heat. I still feel chilly when hanging around but don't get too cold.

 

[JoW]

I carry a synthetic jacket a size bigger than I normally wear and a pair of buffalo type mittens and throw them on over the top if I'm waiting, or wear the jacket under my oversuit if I'm on a slow moving trip. I got one from decathlon for about ?20 which does the job and is cheap enough not to matter.

 

[maxb727]

Thanks all. Lots of great suggestions and things we had discussed trying too.

We did wonder if the base layer created more chill. They don?t have a lot of body fat, and wasn?t nearly as cold when they were fatter too!

Keep the ideas coming. Might help others in the future too [emoji4]


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[Andy Sparrow]

I?ve found previously if I wear a long sleeve baselayer I get cold especially if it gets wet, as it interferes with the fleece wicking away moisture and trapping warm air in the fibres next to the skin.

Can't say that's my experience.  Baselayers shouldn't hold much moisture and what's there should warm up.  I quite often do Swildons to Sump 2 and the more base layers I wear the warmer I am! 

 

[cavemanmike]

On a trip to oha one year one of the group carried in a small survival shelter (big enough for 2 peeps) and a candle, what a life saver waiting for one of the sumps to drain. Toasty

 

[Pitlamp]

I second Pitlamp's merino recommendation; it's pricey but a thick (i.e. 250g/m2) long sleeved top and leggings make a huge difference.

For anyone visiting the Dales try the Watershed Mill sales outlet just outside Settle on the road towards Stainforth / Horton / Ribblehead. They sell Merino base layers at very reasonable prices.