Author Topic: Darren drum or daren drum?  (Read 1044 times)

Offline Ralf

  • Cave diver interested in digging. Editor-in-chief of the finnish caving journal.
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 55
    • Finnish caving association
Darren drum or daren drum?
« on: August 12, 2021, 08:15:45 pm »
Which one is correct?
- darren drum or
- daren drum

What is the etymology of this beloved yet cumbersome items name?

UK Caving

Darren drum or daren drum?
« on: August 12, 2021, 08:15:45 pm »
Warmbac

Offline ChrisJC

  • Funky
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1675
    • http://www.cowdery.org.uk
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2021, 08:28:36 pm »
I believe it is a Daren Drum, named after Daren Cilau.

Why?, don't know for sure.

Chris.
--
http://www.cowdery.org.uk
Mines, caves,
Land Rovers

Online mikem

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4985
  • Mendip Caving Group
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2021, 09:22:44 pm »
Or neither - it's a wide neck drum:
https://www.curtec.com/en/products/drums/wide-neck-drums

Cavers refer to them as Daren drums as they were widely used to take gear into Daren cilau

Offline alastairgott

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2135
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2021, 09:48:24 pm »
If you've got a friend called Darren, it's definitely a Darren drum... you should carry this, it's got your name on it ;)

Offline Ralf

  • Cave diver interested in digging. Editor-in-chief of the finnish caving journal.
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 55
    • Finnish caving association
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2021, 09:54:36 pm »
I have a friend called Dare.
It's settled then!

I'm going home  :dig:

ps. thanks a lot for your answers

Offline alastairgott

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2135
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2021, 09:57:09 pm »
Write Daren on the side and rub the N off, jobs a good'n!

I have a friend called Dare.
It's settled then!

I'm going home  :dig:

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6215
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2021, 08:19:48 am »
Long before the advantages of these things were recognised by the Daren explorers the French cavers were routinely using them. This item is still known to some UK cavers, who caved in France at the time, as a "French Pot". I remember French cave divers fixing a bicycle inner tube valve in the lid so they could pump them up to avoid them collapsing under pressure when passing deeper sumps.

Two of them fitted perfectly into one of those excellent red tacklebags which Dave Elliot used to manufacture under the "Lizard" brand. Many of the diving regulators used on the project which linked the East Kingsdale Branch (in KMC's Downstream Sump) with the East Kingsdale master cave (in King Pot) went back and forth through the Roof Tunnel safely, thus packaged. They were far better than BDH containers or rocket tubes, as hoses were less badly bent. I still use them for carrying diving gear regularly.

In case it's of interest, I can confirm that we took camera gear through Far Sump in Peak Cavern many times in them, before there was a dry way in engineered. It proved they were reliable to -8 m at least.

Offline Rhys

  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1488
  • SWCC, RFDCC
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2021, 05:00:34 pm »
For some reason, cavers tend to spell the cave name with one R - "Daren". Despite the fact that the cliff the cave is named after has two Rs - "Darren".

The proper Welsh word has two Rs. Darren, mutated from Tarren; meaning a rock or cliff or somesuch.

Offline Ceiriog Chris

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2021, 10:05:29 pm »
Slightly off topic and no idea of the correct spelling , although very useful for lugging stuff down to the hard rock cafe, as I found out the other year they are useless and the worst possible shape  for fitting in sea kayak hatches !

Offline Badlad

  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2340
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2021, 10:41:34 am »
I'd go with Darren as it was definitely named due to its use in the Hard Rock Cafe, Darren Cilau explorations of the mid to late 1980s.  That co-incided with their introduction to British caving shops I think.

As pointed out they were available on the continent long before that.  I bought one from Marbachs shop in the Bourne Gorge in 1981 and used it often for long UK caving trips due to the snug fit in a standard tackle back.  Everyone I caved with wanted one but it was a few more years before they were readily available.

Online mikem

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4985
  • Mendip Caving Group
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2021, 07:12:36 pm »
Spelling has never been a strong point of cavers (& it has historically been spelt both ways)...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 07:33:44 pm by mikem »

Offline owd git

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2021, 12:28:45 pm »
Why not just call it Dave?? :thumbsup: sorted!
Hen racer? 2000 world hen racing champion( guess who has this years world champion hen!)

Offline Stuart France

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 301
Re: Darren drum or daren drum?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2021, 11:29:53 am »
The cave in question was called Ogof-y-Daren Cilau by the Caves of South Wales, guidebook of 1978 et seq, which is where cavers got it from although BNSSS is credited with the discovery in 1957.

The name Darren Cilau is used on OS 1:25000 and 1:50000 maps for the quarry behind Whitewalls (not the next quarry towards Brynmawr with the eponymous cave entrance) and much further along the same escarpment is the "Craig y Cilau" national nature reserve with more caves like Agen Allwedd.

Tarren / Darren is the Welsh word for an escarpment, which is a pretty accurate description for this locality, and a glance over the local OS map shows plenty of other rocky Darrens.  Welsh doesn't double many consonants, the common ones being N and R, and it also has an un-doubling feature too, as in tarenni which is the plural form.  Not to be confused with dd and ff and ll which are treated as single letters.  A dictionary lists all the E- words followed by all the F- words, then the FF- words!

But what does Cilau mean?   Cil means a small corner recess, as in corner of the eye or corner of the jaw, and the plural is ciliau not cilau.  I suppose it could be referring to the two right angle corners in the escarpment known to cavers as "Windy Corner" and the sharp turn at Elwys Faen which are met while walking the track to Aggy, but these are huge corners, and otherwise it seems a bit odd to call an escarpment like this cornered.  The usual word for big corner in Welsh is cornel.

 

Main Menu

Forum Home Help Search
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal