Author Topic: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put  (Read 2307 times)

Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2021, 01:33:48 pm »
Blimey! BradW isn't flavour of the month! 
A multi-pronged advertisement is obviously better but for me UkC works best.

BradW, how do you see the survey being used to advertise the hustings?  With a space for a question or just with an advert? (just to note, I've filled in the survey following a link from UkC and am still thinking of questions to add to this thread)

Using UkC, if I weren't a member would I create an account to ask a question, probably not if I'm honest, however, I don't use facebook and twitter so no mention on here and I wouldn't have heard anything as I am not very involved with BCA club/region reps.

A little tongue in cheek and certainly not in my gift to discuss but a question for the candidates:

"As UkCaving represents a communication method to a large number of British Caving Association members, would you support a BCA purchase of UkCaving.com to rebrand to the official British Caving Association Forum?"




Offline BradW

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2021, 02:56:55 pm »
I am not bothered whether I am someone's favorite or not - I am not seeking election (as far as you know  :) )

I was not advocating the BCA members' survey be used to promote the hustings. The survey contains a list of communication platforms - many of these would be the options available to seek questions for the hustings. Personally, I had only spotted the request for questions here. That was the point of my post.




Offline droid

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2021, 04:17:14 pm »
As UkCaving represents a communication method to a large number of British Caving Association members

Questionable assumption.

And yes, Ian, I AM stirring the pot. Because the pot needs stirring. The massive assumption that UKC offers a valid view of the majority opinion of BCA members needs challenging.

It offers the opinions of those gobby enough to post.

 :)
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Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2021, 04:30:21 pm »
I understand your first comment Droid, and it's a fair point, but as a communication method to cavers is there a better one than UkCaving? For me there isn't, hence why I think the BCA engaging with it in the way David does is to be encouraged.

I find your second comment a little unfair, as you quoted, I did not say UkCaving was a valid view of the majority, but that it is a communication method to a large number of the BCA membership. 

Good point BradW, 10 options on there.  Hopefully the survey will give a good indicatino of how BCA should target it's membership for news. (And good luck in the election  :thumbsup: )


Offline droid

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2021, 04:46:47 pm »
I was making a general point regarding 'opinions' Ian B.

And it was aimed at Ian A's comment.

Too many Ians  :lol:
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Offline Fishes

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2021, 04:47:04 pm »
I don't think UK caving can be considered representative of BCA members. Lots of BCA members are not UK Caving members and those that are an even smaller number. Some UK caving's most frequent posters have very strong views on the BCA that do not reflect the views of the BCA members I know - most of whom just want to go caving without loads of drama.

Perhaps the best question for a potential new chair would be - How will you build a consensus that will allow the organisation to better support its general membership and officers without getting distracted by those who have more extreme views.

Online Ian Adams

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2021, 06:37:18 pm »
And yes, Ian, I AM stirring the pot. Because the pot needs stirring.


Stir it all you like but it is hardly equitable to then say "I think British caving has had enough of this sort of thing" in the same post  :ang:

Everybody probably agrees that debate (or "stirring" if you will) is generally a good thing for any organisation. Arbitrary rule (or tyranny as it is defined) is rarely in the best interests of members.

Ian
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Offline darren

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2021, 07:03:12 pm »
Doesn't matter how many times you tell administrators and keen users of ukcaving.com that it is not viewed by ( or representative of) most cavers they refuse to acknowledge or comprehend such a thing.

Eventually you stop interacting and just watch.
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Offline Ian Ball

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2021, 07:44:01 pm »
Hi Darren, what is your preferred method of getting BCA news and for giving your opinion on BCA topics?


Offline Badlad

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2021, 08:11:40 pm »
As an administer on here all I can say is - we try.  We give BCA and other BCA constituent and regional bodies a board to use as they wish.  If they want to use any other media they can (of course) and do.  We just offer a service to cavers  (for nowt but a load of hassle BTW), thousands view it and hundreds contribute to it.  There are alternatives.  BradW has their Darkness Below site for example.  BCA have a website, facebook and Twitter pages.  They also have a sporadic newsletter and an email list which unfortunately doesn't function properly until Data Protection rules can be sorted out.

Whether folk like it or not Ukcaving is a very good place to get a message across or seek opinion.  Don't fall into the trap of blaming the messenger if you don't like what you hear on some issues.  Other channels are available and I for one would encourage caving organisations to use them all.

Good caving


Offline darren

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2021, 08:14:30 pm »
A big problem is people assuming their views and desires are representative.

Just becuase you have a interest in getting BCA news and giving feed back doesn't mean others want the same. Very occasionally I will talk to other cavers about BCA stuff only to find they have even less interest than me. This applies to at least 20 members of my club I interact with

I've made my view of BCA perfectly clear before.

My club makes me join for insurance reasons. I don't really mind the £8.00 or so that pays for the insurance cover. I very much resent the rest of my BCA membership fee which I view as a tax.

Most members of BCA only join because clubs make them. The fact that some/a lot of members only join BCA because they have to is another thing the site  admins and prolific users refuse to belive or comprehend.

It is like being in a1970 closed shop Union shouting about how many members it has.
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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2021, 08:17:48 pm »
As a DIM, I maintain my membership entirely voluntarily. Because it's such good value.

Offline Badlad

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2021, 08:20:50 pm »
The good news is Darren is that you can give your opinion, unedited, on here and lots of people will read it.

Offline darren

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2021, 08:27:09 pm »
Hi Badlad

I do appreciate ukcaving as a resource and find it useful and informative. I visit it every day. I realise you and the others involved put in a lot of time and effort. I hope you don't count my comments as abuse, you don't deserve any abuse.

I do however think all users should remember we are a self selecting minority and shouldn't get above ourselves. Even within our self selecting minority we have an even smaller minority who regularly post. Others think you can't have a nuanced debate using this medium.

I would guess most posts are by made 20 members. 
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Offline Badlad

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2021, 08:40:21 pm »
No worries and no offences taken.  Whatever anyone writes on here readers will make their own minds up.  I encourage all caving organisations to use as much media as possible to get their messages out.  Ukcaving is one of the best ways to do that.

I appreciate many cavers are not so entrenched in the caving world that they want to join in with any discussion whether on here or any other format.  I fully encourage a world where people just go caving and that is it.  I myself came from there and having dabbled in caving politics for a few years am firmly back in that court.  I do like to share an opinion or two though  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Russell Myers

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2021, 09:29:17 pm »
Good news folks, after some ball juggling (I blame it on those wetsuits we used to wear with a crotch strap), Dave R has come up with a hybrid alternative to a full on "hustings" which I can work with. You will, of course, have the pleasure of my ugly mug broadcast on a Zoom recording but there is always a price to pay for most things.
Joking apart, continue to feed those questions to Dave and I'll look forward to fielding them and responding accordingly.

Kind Regards
Russell Myers
Chair
BCA 
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Online Ian Adams

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2021, 10:17:28 pm »
Great news Russell and thank you  ;)

Question for both candidates;

How do your policies and approach to running the BCA differ from the other candidate?

Ian
A door, once opened, may be stepped through in either direction.

Offline droid

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2021, 01:41:03 am »
And yes, Ian, I AM stirring the pot. Because the pot needs stirring.


Stir it all you like but it is hardly equitable to then say "I think British caving has had enough of this sort of thing" in the same post  :ang:


Ian

I didn't say that.  :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Online Ian Adams

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2021, 07:17:59 am »
Droid,

I know you didn't say that ... within the post you quoted me from, I was specifically referring to another user who had done precisely that. You only took half of what I said when you referred to stirring the pot.

 :chair:
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Offline David Rose

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2021, 04:25:57 pm »
Ok chaps, the two candidates and I have now sorted out the misunderstandings that led to my original, unintentionally misleading post. The revised format for the hustings has been agreed and I will be making an announcement here, on the BCA website and on Darkness Below shortly. 

In the meantime, continue to feel free to send questions you'd like to see answered by the candidates as set out in the original post, or you can put them here.

Offline Badlad

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2021, 07:46:22 pm »
Which do the candidates prefer.  Red sauce, brown sauce or no sauce at all?  I'm serious.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Hustings for BCA Chair election: please send questions you want put
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2021, 08:45:37 pm »
Q: Has BCA bloated itself waay beyond a slick/essential functional framework and become unfit for purpose by being overly bogged down with minutiae functions most/many/nearly all of which can be dispensed with and enacted into research topics when/if the need arises? BCA's functions from the perspective of normal cavers are so minimal as to be satisfactorily delivered by a team of probably 4 people. e.g. look at BCA Minutes from 10 years ago and they've become four times more in quantity since then, go back 16 years and the bloat factor in the Minutes is almost 1000%. FFS. It's like the BCA now is a talking shop which no-one needs to listen to. Cull out 90% of easily arguably non-important functions and it'll probably be where it needs to be.

 

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