Author Topic: Double ended trigger clip - what for?  (Read 641 times)

Online aricooperdavis

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Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« on: September 05, 2021, 04:38:58 pm »
Whilst exploring a mine today I found a double ended trigger clip lying in the mud (photo of what I'm talking about attached). Can anyone tell me why a mine explorer might be carrying one? The entrance is a shaft, if that helps, so SRT these days but probably laddered by explorers not so long ago.

UK Caving

Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« on: September 05, 2021, 04:38:58 pm »
Warmbac

Offline Keris82

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2021, 05:47:32 pm »
Don't they use these for diving?

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2021, 06:40:49 pm »
Don't they use these for diving?

Yes, it's referred to by some divers as a "bolt snap".

Online aricooperdavis

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2021, 07:02:06 pm »
What do divers use them for? In this particular location there's no diving but it could always have come out of a divers pocket on a non-diving trip I suppose...

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2021, 07:10:47 pm »
They use bolt snaps for the extra entertainment of struggling to operate them with cold, sausage fingered, neoprene clad hands.   ;)

My own preference is for proper krabs, which have far better feel. (At least in British sumps.)

Online Fjell

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2021, 07:33:46 pm »
In order to be able to use them I have haven't dived anywhere but the Pacific in the last 15 years. 1mm wetsuit for when it gets really chilly. And I cunningly only use 32% Nitrox to make sure it can't get dark or something silly like that. I don't use gloves very often either, which helps when you are fiddling with things like bouys and computers.


Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2021, 07:43:35 pm »
You're making me jealous!

It's a bit different on a long cold Dales cave dive in the winter.

Online Fjell

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2021, 08:05:36 pm »
Slightly more honestly it's my excuse as to why I am not going diving. I can't face getting into drysuits etc, too much stuff, too cold. A friend told me only last week that's why the Red Sea is as close as he will go.

I think I recall something along the lines that the fatality rate has gone up because the average age is now so high in the UK? Is that true? I don't really want to peg it underwater because it's freezing cold, I'm saving myself for pegging it prussiking.

Offline Steve Clark

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2021, 09:17:58 pm »
Us clear water softie cave divers like them because they are small and neat, don’t clip themselves to other things accidentally easily and they’re stainless (rather than brass or Ali) and survive in the sea.

I admit there is a learning curve to operate them thick or dry gloves, but they are ok once you’ve mastered it. The small size means you can use them or the single version universally for everything. On my standard backmounted kit, I have them on primary reg, backup lights, primary lighthead, contents gauge, stage bottles and all the things in my pockets.

As for the original question, I’ve got one on my survey wetnotes (to secure them in a pocket) - maybe someone dropped them doing that.

Before anyone thinks these are useful for actual caving, don’t. Once some mud or silt gets behind the trigger/spring they are impossible to open. This can actually be quite dangerous if they are clipped to something metal that itself can’t be cut. If you look at anyone’s diving gear that’s properly thought out, there will be a soft link/tied cord where the bolt snap is attached to anything metal so it can be cut away if necessary.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2021, 06:57:27 am »
Another reason I dislike using these things for cave diving is that they aren't load bearing (in the safety critical sense). If someone has to be assisted on anything vertical, the more real karabiners your system is made up from, the more options you have for cobbling together a makeshift but safe rescue system.

I agree that bolt snaps are probably of more value in warm Florida springs, where there's no above water passages for an accident to happen in.

Or on dog leads . . .

Online SamT

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Re: Double ended trigger clip - what for?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2021, 09:15:34 am »
Another reason I dislike using these things for cave diving is that they aren't load bearing (in the safety critical sense). If someone has to be assisted on anything vertical, the more real karabiners your system is made up from, the more options you have for cobbling together a makeshift but safe rescue system.

Totally this ^^

I've always carried this ethos through what ever I do. 
I've always replaced draw chords on tackle bags with 6mm chord, which gives you a last resort prussik loop.
Same for chalk bag chord when climbing as opposed to a belt and plastic buckle.
You see  so many people with 'accessory' carabiners for their nutkey etc, but why not use a proper load bearing krab.

Common sense innit.

 

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