Author Topic: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?  (Read 448 times)

Offline pwhole

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'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« on: October 07, 2021, 10:15:23 pm »
The objects I mentioned in the photo thread - two more examples here, one from the same mine, and also one from Son of Longcliffe. Each 'leg' has a spike on it, to be hammered into the wood. I think they are similar objects to ones used in the Agricola illustrations of rag-and-chain pumps, as in here:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-rag-and-chain-pump-being-used-to-raise-water-from-a-mine-from-de-re-57288034.html

Anyone have any other ideas?

Online ChrisJC

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Re: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2021, 06:43:38 am »
I can't think of a better suggestion.

Is there any other evidence of a rag and chain pump nearby?, or a location where using one would make sense?

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Online Tomferry

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Re: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2021, 08:13:23 am »
I shall have to give this a think later on I shall have a flick in my large mining sketch book has many diagrams.  It seems a good match , as Chris has already said if you can link it to a shaft your 99% their then

Online Cantclimbtom

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Re: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2021, 08:55:42 am »
Hanging baskets?
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Offline wormster

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Re: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2021, 12:31:03 pm »
It would depend on the age of the mine: pre electrification, or, post electrification. If pre then possibly a rag pump or cable/pipe hangars if post modern
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Offline Fishes

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Re: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2021, 12:48:48 pm »
Most likely from a rag and chain pump.

We found similar down part of Wills Founder along side other remains of a rag and chain pump.

Offline pwhole

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Re: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2021, 06:11:52 pm »

Is there any other evidence of a rag and chain pump nearby?, or a location where using one would make sense?


Neither mine is especially wet, although Son of Longcliffe does have a permanently-full pool of water that could feasibly once have been a connection to lower, wetter levels. Maybe they realised soon after instruction that they didn't actually need it. Though I suspect this place was open for a long time before Speedwell was even thought of. Both finds were no more than 10m below surface.

Offline AR

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Re: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2021, 08:38:15 pm »
The SoL examples came from an area that appeared to be an underground dressing floor and is close to the aforementioned pool so maybe they had a small pump to raise water for a buddle.

I have seen an early 20th century photo of a windlass barrel that was being used for winding but had keepers like these; I think it was on Picture the Past but I can't seem to find it now!
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Offline pwhole

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Re: 'M' or 'W'-shaped brackets on a windlass - or are they?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2021, 09:26:09 pm »
Weirdly, the pool (or blocked and flooded shaft) sits right inside the original adit entrance from Cowlow Nick, now backfilled. It's a false floor on the far side of these photos, nearest the blocked entrance, just beyond Charley, and it must have had boards over it, but it's a very odd location for a shaft to lower levels - which are dry beneath, though in wet weather water pours down from a backfilled stope, close horizontally but about 10m lower than the pool. The lower level can sump at the lowest point in weather, like a toilet U-bend, and a small swallow at the lowest point, which is a tiny perpendicular open joint part-enlarged by the miners, is easily overwhelmed. That's where we did the dye-trace a few years ago. It's possible that the rag-and-chain pump was used in the higher level to pump the lower level dry in very wet weather, and the sump was sunk near the entrance to enable the water to be tipped down the hill in troughs?


 

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