There are so many opinions on this board and yet I'm surprised this isn't the main topic of debate, especially given the talk by David Checkley at HE.

How as a community should we be giving the sport a better profile and encourage more people to take part?

I know many prominent board members introduce many young people to caving, or write books on the subject, or even study it for a career, so there is a lot of knowledge out there!

Don't want em, Young people, and Females cannot grow decent beards, therefor cannot be proper cavers.

But seriously, organisations such as the B.C.A.'s Try Caving, and C.H.E.C.C. do do a lot to raise the profile, and involvement at events like the Outdoor Show at the N.E.C., where, with a estimated Throughput of over 3000, We at the Caving stand were one of the most popular attractions, Do a lot to raise a wider awareness.
But with a media,(Gutter Press) only interested in Sex, Death, and scandal, choosing only to portray Us all, (by and Large) as Loonies it may well be an uphill struggle.

Kevlar said:

How as a community should we be giving the sport a better profile and encourage more people to take part?

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I am not against the 'Try Caving' initiative but I do feel it has missed the point.  Thousands of people already try caving every year - what we really need is a 'Continue Caving'  initiative.    In other words we should ensure that people of any age who want to take up caving are facilitated and encouraged to do so, both through BCA and clubs.

And don't forget Mine explorers - lot of people in the Cornwall, South East and Mid/ North Wales, Shropshire are being introduced to underground explorations

Mike

Andy Sparrow said:

I am not against the 'Try Caving' initiative but I do feel it has missed the point.  Thousands of people already try caving every year - what we really need is a 'Continue Caving'  initiative.    In other words we should ensure that people of any age who want to take up caving are facilitated and encouraged to do so, both through BCA and clubs.

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I couldn't agree more. There are lots of keen adventure sportsmen (and women) out there who would readily take up caving if only there were less barriers and a bit more inspirational publicity.

Here are two real examples of the type of person the sport should be attracting:

-A work colleague of mine who is keen climber, boulderer and arctic trekker started going underground last year with a few mates. They are now doing pull-through trips such as Simpson's and are starting to venture into Ease Gill

- Some friends of mine who are into white-water kayaking, sea kayaking and climbing decided to start exploring the local Yorkshire caves on Tuesday evenings after work, instead of going to the climbing wall. In less than a year they have clocked up over 50 trips are are now teaching themselves SRT

None of these people are likely to join a caving club - they don't need to.

What they need are:

- Modern, inspirational guidebooks like the ones that are available for climbing, bouldering, mountain biking and the rest

- Information, information, information - not dumbed down, not patronising, just good hard information on techniques, equipment, venues, routes, grades, dangers and challenges - on the web, in books and in magazines.

Come to think of, that's the same needs that we existing cavers have.

Cave Mapper said:

What they need are:

- Modern, inspirational guidebooks like the ones that are available for climbing, bouldering, mountain biking and the rest

- Information, information, information - not dumbed down, not patronising, just good hard information on techniques, equipment, venues, routes, grades, dangers and challenges - on the web, in books and in magazines.

Come to think of, that's the same needs that we existing cavers have.

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That sounds bizarre to me. Caving has plenty of good, non-dumbed-down guidebooks. More than we have any right to expect given the size of the sport I would say.

The only info that's hard to find is surveys.

rich said:

That sounds bizarre to me. Caving has plenty of good, non-dumbed-down guidebooks. More than we have any right to expect given the size of the sport I would say.

The only info that's hard to find is surveys.

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I agree. I would also point out that more & more surveys can be found online. both my club (UBSS) & rich's club (BEC) have scanned & uploaded a great deal of their published material including lots of surveys.

Andy Sparrow said:

I am not against the 'Try Caving' initiative but I do feel it has missed the point.  Thousands of people already try caving every year - what we really need is a 'Continue Caving'  initiative.    In other words we should ensure that people of any age who want to take up caving are facilitated and encouraged to do so, both through BCA and clubs.

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I don't think the Try Caving initiative has missed the point. You need people to try caving before you can get them to continue. Plus, you (all) seem to have assumed that more people aren't continuing to cave. I don't think that's true -- numbers seem to be up at HE, and there subjectively seems to be more cavers around. Plus, there seems to been an increase in university cavers in recent years but it'll take a few years for them to filter through to other clubs.

I do think most clubs are pretty bad at encouraging people to join. But have you got any ideas how to change that?

If we thought about it there's probably a lot we could do to encourage people to join. Get your friends and their friends into caving, asking your local pub to let you put up a display for your club, having a good website...

Unless you were referring to changing the attitudes of caving clubs who are stuck in their ways, that could be more difficult.

I agree that the difficulty is not getting people to try caving, but getting people jto join a club and continuing caving.

I seem to think that there was thread on this topic a year or two ago and one of the suggestions was to have an 'adopt a university caving club' scheme - where a club and a university have the occassional joint trips and events and make it a natural progression when leaving the university to join the club.

rich said:

Cave Mapper said:

What they need are:

- Modern, inspirational guidebooks like the ones that are available for climbing, bouldering, mountain biking and the rest

- Information, information, information - not dumbed down, not patronising, just good hard information on techniques, equipment, venues, routes, grades, dangers and challenges - on the web, in books and in magazines.

Come to think of, that's the same needs that we existing cavers have.

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That sounds bizarre to me. Caving has plenty of good, non-dumbed-down guidebooks. More than we have any right to expect given the size of the sport I would say.

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Two of the three Northern Caves Guides are out of print and unavailable. Until they are reprinted, replaced or the information is on the web, that's a huge barrier to anyone starting the sport in this part of the country.

And I've yet to see a caving guide that comes close to the RockFax Northern England climbing guide or the Deep Water Soloing guide in terms of inspirational quality. These two books alone inspired me to take up climbing again after a very long lay-off.

But it's not all bad news, the NFTFH Guide has had a huge positive impact on northern caving. It offers the challenges that people need if they are to sustain an interest in the sport. The hard caves of the Dales are seeing more traffic than they've seen in thirty years.

rich said:

The only info that's hard to find is surveys.

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Yes, and surveys are the most important form of cave info.

Would fell walking and rambling be as popular as they are, if maps of the countryside were not readily available?

Deeply Mendippy said:

I agree that the difficulty is not getting people to try caving, but getting people to join a club and continuing caving.

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If we thought about it there's probably a lot we could do to encourage people to join.

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I do think most clubs are pretty bad at encouraging people to join. But have you got any ideas how to change that?

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Deeply Mendippy, Sally-J, Rich,

You're all right, but you're missing an important point: it's not about getting people to join caving clubs, it's about getting people to take up caving.

Clubs are no longer necessary for a healthy, vibrant expanding sport.

Cave Mapper said:

Clubs are no longer necessary for a healthy, vibrant expanding sport.

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I completely disagree. Clubs are absolutely vital to the continue health and well-being of the sport of caving for many reasons.

But disregarding that, surely caving as part of a club, drawing on a wealth of experience, knowledge, contacts and caving buddies is vastly more rewarding than doing it on your own?

Cave Mapper said:

Clubs are no longer necessary for a healthy, vibrant expanding sport.

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Cave Mapper: The question is how are "we" going to encourage more new people to caving. Who is this mysterious "we"? Each of us individually? Or maybe collectively?

On my own I can have a minor effect by posssibly encouraging one or two people I know to have a go. But it is far far easier for me to use the facilities of the club I belong to. They have a programme of activities, they have some kit to lend, they have accommodation to use. They provide me with the assistance of other cavers with varying degrees of experience.

If the clubs didn't exist, and we did all try to do this promotion individually, we still have to identify the "we". Maybe it's the BCA. So, if there were no clubs, what would be the BCA? It would be an organisation with a large individual membership. Sounds a bit like a super-club to me.

Yes, individuals can be encouraged to take up the sport, and they need not join a club, but just remember who instigated the encouragement in the first place. A collective body - an association or a "club" by any other name.

Peter Burgess said:

Cave Mapper: The question is how are "we" going to encourage more new people to caving. Who is this mysterious "we"? Each of us individually? Or maybe collectively?

On my own I can have a minor effect by possibly encouraging one or two people I know to have a go.

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Mr Burgess, you are a 'Battle Scarred Forum Hero', your voice is heard far and wide, you can effect many more than the one or two people you know.

To further illustrate my point, the dark-places forum is proving rather successful at introducing newcomers to caving, and it's not a club, at least not in the traditional sense.

Cave Mapper said:

Mr Burgess, you are a 'Battle Scarred Forum Hero', your voice is heard far and wide, you can effect many more than the one or two people you know.

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This forum may not be a club, but it is a collection of like-minded individuals - a collective - a "club" in all but name. Just because a group of people in a "real" club has a formal constitution doesn't mean that club is irrelevant as you seem to suggest. And just because UKCaving isn't a "club" doesn't preclude it from having some of the useful trappings and characteristics of a club.

Cave Mapper said:

..... the ****-places forum is proving rather successful at introducing newcomers to caving, and it's not a club, at least not in the traditional sense.

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Sorry, you didn't say they were irrelevant, just not necessary. That's where I think you are really wrong. In order for any initiative to have real impact, it needs the punch that a collection of people can give it, whether a forum, an association, or a club in the traditional sense. And to that end, yes it IS necessary to act together and not on our own.

See also:

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,1962.0.html