Author Topic: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm  (Read 1703 times)

Offline RobinGriffiths

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A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« on: May 15, 2021, 02:06:51 pm »
I had a little surface wonder around Rhyd, near Porthmadog yesterday, renewing acquaintance with some mines of old, as well as visiting a couple of new, obscure ones.

Ty'n y Ddol SH 6374 4259
This was a low collapsed adit at the base of a low cliff near a small river. Peeping inside showed it to be suprisingly long. I expected it to shut down after a few meters, but it appears to go at least 50m (it appears to curve to right so it may continue). Estimated 3' of water in the adit with 2' of airspace. There's no sign of spoil or mineralisation. It's in the Cwm Eigiau formation, so I wondered if it was a slate trial, however Coflein has it down as being a metal mine, and in fact, Wilkinson (Mines and Quarries of North Wales) has it down as being lead. No other details on the Coflein website.





Bryntirion SH 6366 4224
Two adits where the ground rises to the south of the Afon Rhyd. The upper adit was blind after 3'. The lower adit is blocked by a large slab, however a gap above the slab shows a flooded adit, although it's difficult to judge extent. Again, virtually no spoil, but the were some traces of iron staining. Copper according to Wilkinson.





Thence a walk via Hafod Boeth and Catherine and Jane to look at the Bwlch y Plwm opencast. There are accesible underground workings under the opencast, but it's 20 years since I explored these. These workings are (as far as I'm aware) not connected to the 'normal' Bwlch-y-plwm mine as used by outdoor groups.

My return trip took me down towards the farm, a route I've not done before, so there were a couple of interesting things I found. There's a blocked adit emitting water at the base of the large spoil heap in front of the opencast. I've got a feeling I may have got down to this level 20 years ago.

Further down, just behind the farmhouse is another blocked adit emitting enough water to form a pool. Presumably this must be linked to the opencast workings?





Finally there was a large bore square sectioned flooded 'shaft' a bit lower down the footpath, depth undertain.




Offline royfellows

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2021, 03:35:27 pm »
Thanks for this. It is an interesting area.
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Offline Graigwen

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2021, 11:18:27 am »
There is a very brief mentyion of Ty'n y ddol mine in "Diwyydiannau Coll" by Bob Owen 'Croesor' [1885-1962]:

"Tynddol. Here there are remains of quite a large copper mine with a long level, and the spoil tips show that there was extensive digging here. On the tips are the ruins of the old huts where they used to work the copper. No one remembers this place being mined. [Translated by B. Anne Richards 1953-1974]


When Bob Owen says "...quite a large copper mine..." he means by contrast to small trials. Bob Owen collected his information before 1943. I went to this site in 1971 and don't remember any remains of huts...but it was a long time ago.

.

Offline Tomferry

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2021, 11:42:27 am »
Nice ! I don’t no this area but I enjoyed the read with the photos we need more posts like this ! :thumbsup:

Can’t beat a positive read on a rainy day at work whilst hiding under a tree  :lol:

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2021, 11:42:43 am »
I had a little surface wonder around Rhyd, near Porthmadog yesterday, renewing acquaintance with some mines of old, as well as visiting a couple of new, obscure ones.

Ty'n y Ddol SH 6374 4259
This was a low collapsed adit at the base of a low cliff near a small river. Peeping inside showed it to be suprisingly long. I expected it to shut down after a few meters, but it appears to go at least 50m (it appears to curve to right so it may continue). Estimated 3' of water in the adit with 2' of airspace. There's no sign of spoil or mineralisation. It's in the Cwm Eigiau formation, so I wondered if it was a slate trial, however Coflein has it down as being a metal mine, and in fact, Wilkinson (Mines and Quarries of North Wales) has it down as being lead. No other details on the Coflein website.





Bryntirion SH 6366 4224
Two adits where the ground rises to the south of the Afon Rhyd. The upper adit was blind after 3'. The lower adit is blocked by a large slab, however a gap above the slab shows a flooded adit, although it's difficult to judge extent. Again, virtually no spoil, but the were some traces of iron staining. Copper according to Wilkinson.





Thence a walk via Hafod Boeth and Catherine and Jane to look at the Bwlch y Plwm opencast. There are accesible underground workings under the opencast, but it's 20 years since I explored these. These workings are (as far as I'm aware) not connected to the 'normal' Bwlch-y-plwm mine as used by outdoor groups.

My return trip took me down towards the farm, a route I've not done before, so there were a couple of interesting things I found. There's a blocked adit emitting water at the base of the large spoil heap in front of the opencast. I've got a feeling I may have got down to this level 20 years ago.

Further down, just behind the farmhouse is another blocked adit emitting enough water to form a pool. Presumably this must be linked to the opencast workings?





Finally there was a large bore square sectioned flooded 'shaft' a bit lower down the footpath, depth undertain.





Is that a body of water I can see there , is it a puddle or does it go ?
I dont know where I am going, but will know where I am when I get there.

Offline Graigwen

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2021, 11:44:16 am »
Bryntirion is not mentioned by name in Bob Owen Croesor's book, but is covered by two sentences about an area covering several farms between Rhyd and Ty'n y ddol:

"Bryn Goleu, Rhyd y Cyffiniau.  There was some mining for copper or lead here but nobody remembers at what time. It was on quite a small scale.

If Bob Owen says it was small scale that suggests just trials.

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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2021, 07:53:47 pm »
Is that a body of water I can see there , is it a puddle or does it go ?

The penultimate one is just a pool formed by the water leaving the collapsed adit.

However, I think the last one is a flooded shaft. How deep and where it goes, who knows. I might take a plumb line when I'm next in the area. It's not too far from the road for a quick plumb.

Offline sinker

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2021, 09:31:53 pm »

It's not too far from the road for a quick plumb.


It's a well known area for a bit of late night 'plumbing'.

Ah, well, now, you see...erm...

Offline alastairgott

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2021, 10:36:47 pm »
Bulky plum

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2021, 04:16:48 pm »
 Bwlch-y-plwm is this the place near Dolgellau with lots of flooded little sumps where you drive through a farmyard ?
I dont know where I am going, but will know where I am when I get there.

Online ChrisJC

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2021, 04:53:47 pm »
Bwlch-y-plwm is this the place near Dolgellau with lots of flooded little sumps where you drive through a farmyard ?

No.

I had a little surface wonder around Rhyd, near Porthmadog yesterday...

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Offline royfellows

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2021, 06:02:10 pm »
Paul, take the road to Beddgelert from Penrhyndeudraeth, road bends to the right up hill, over the Ffestiniog railway crossing and a minor road on the right takes you to where you can park and carry on along a track to Catherine and Jane. Back on the main road and down hill again, another minor road on the right will take you past the Pantywrach upper adit on the right that I dug open years ago, deep adit on the left amongst the brush, and eventually to Bwlch y Plym. Deep adit and remains of dressing floors below the road, upper works on the right above the road.
Now do you know where you are?
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2021, 06:45:29 pm »
Paul, take the road to Beddgelert from Penrhyndeudraeth, road bends to the right up hill, over the Ffestiniog railway crossing and a minor road on the right takes you to where you can park and carry on along a track to Catherine and Jane. Back on the main road and down hill again, another minor road on the right will take you past the Pantywrach upper adit on the right that I dug open years ago, deep adit on the left amongst the brush, and eventually to Bwlch y Plym. Deep adit and remains of dressing floors below the road, upper works on the right above the road.
Now do you know where you are?

I know the area well but this place has escaped my attention so far , will put it on my list. I think I will have to reach 100 to get round so many. North Wales just keeps giving   :bounce:
I dont know where I am going, but will know where I am when I get there.

Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2021, 06:46:54 pm »

It's not too far from the road for a quick plumb.


It's a well known area for a bit of late night 'plumbing'.   


I know some areas where I used to do a bit of late night plumbing    :lol:
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Offline Paul Marvin

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2021, 06:51:24 pm »
Bwlch-y-plwm is this the place near Dolgellau with lots of flooded little sumps where you drive through a farmyard ?

No.











I had a little surface wonder around Rhyd, near Porthmadog yesterday...

Chris.



 
Ha Ha very informative answer there Chris nothing like keeping it short    :clap2:
I dont know where I am going, but will know where I am when I get there.

Online ChrisJC

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2021, 07:54:40 pm »
Ha Ha very informative answer there Chris nothing like keeping it short    :clap2:

Well I couldn't add anything having never been there myself, but I could offer you at least some information.  :smartass:

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Offline RobinGriffiths

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2021, 09:14:12 pm »
From what I remember, apart from the square 'shaft' mentioned in the original post (which may, or may not be a flooded shaft), there are two underwater sections, but I wouldn't have thought they are extensive, but you never know.  There's a flooded winze at the traverse where the through trip from the top comes to the 'traverse' to join the Deep Adit 'complex junction'. Also, I think there's a flooded winze on the Roman Level (if my naming is correct), which is the level on the right just after entering the Deep Level.

Offline pwhole

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2021, 09:30:34 pm »
Some of my set on AditNow show the main outdoor features on the way to the entrance, if you were still logged in when it went down? Here's the approach track from where we parked anyway, and then it's all up the hill after that.

Offline Mattrocktree

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2022, 06:05:25 pm »
Hullo all, I stumbled across this thread looking for some information on mines around this area. I live down the road and spend a lot of time walking around this area, especially off path and as such I've almost fallen into one mine shaft. I've not got a copy of Wilkinson sadly and I've search old maps and come up with nothing.

From what I can make out it's an open shaft in the floor around 10ft by 3ft and looks about 15ft deep. There is a second adit which is run in further down slope and a scree heap further down in the shape of something that's been dumped. Someone knows something about it as there is the remains of an incredibly old fence surrounding the shaft.

This isn't the only adit I've come across around here. I'm happy to give out grid references for them, or simple meet up and I'll walk to some of them as even with a grid reference finding a hole in the ground in dense woodland can be a pain. I'd check them out myself but I'm one man, his toddler and his dog which doesn't make for an efficient mine exploring team.

Offline royfellows

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2022, 08:32:31 pm »
Hi there, Wecome to the mines forum, Yes grid refs would be useful.

I am quite interested in the area, as previously indicated. I dont know whether you go undergound, but it was me who reopened the Pantywrach middle adit some years ago. I did another inside the mine which now gives easy access to the innder workings.
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Offline Graigfawr

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2022, 12:20:50 am »
Coming late to this thread but I hope this note may be of use...

The two mines featured at the start of the first post on this thread have short entries in J.R.Foster-Smith, "The mines of Merioneth" (British Mining no.6), NMRS, Sheffield, 1977:

Ty'n-y-ddol is mine no.10 on page 7, NGR SH 637/426 "A trial level was driven here in search of lead and copper ores in Ordovician slate. No reference to this working has been seen."

Bryntirion is mine no.11 on page 7, NGR SH 636 / 422 "A small mine or trial in Ordovician slate, probably worked for copper and lead ores, but no details of the workings have been seen."

Foster-Smith does not reference any source (including Bob Owen Croesor's book which is absent from his bibliogaphy), so he likely picked these workings up through his scan of 1:25,000 and 1:10,560 OS maps. "Old Levels" are marked on the 1:10,560 maps from the 1887 survey onwards.

Offline davel

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2022, 09:43:34 am »
There is a very brief mention of Ty'n y ddol mine in "Diwyydiannau Coll" by Bob Owen 'Croesor' [1885-1962] ...
I've added that reference to the Ty'n y ddol entry in Mines and Quarries of North Wales https://www.hendrecoed.org.uk/Wilkinson

In connection with this, if any kind person who is familiar with Bob Owen's papers would care to pass on similar references to be added to the gazetteer I would be very grateful.

Dave

Offline davel

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2022, 10:07:44 am »
... I've not got a copy of Wilkinson ...

As mentioned in my previous post, 'Wilkinson' (full title Gazetteer and Bibliography of the Mines and Quarries of North Wales) is an online resource https://hendrecoed.org.uk/Wilkinson.

Quote
From what I can make out it's an open shaft in the floor around 10ft by 3ft and looks about 15ft deep. There is a second adit which is run in further down slope and a scree heap further down in the shape of something that's been dumped. Someone knows something about it as there is the remains of an incredibly old fence surrounding the shaft.

If that's the shaft I think it may be at SH632413 in the woods between Bwlch y Plwm and Catherine and Jane I've been down it (it's no more than 7 m deep) to land on a pile of spoil with deep water on both sides. I think it may be connected to a level with low airspace to the north.

Dave

Offline Graigwen

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Re: A wander around Rhyd and Bwlch-y-plwm
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2022, 10:16:09 am »

I've added that reference to the Ty'n y ddol entry in Mines and Quarries of North Wales https://www.hendrecoed.org.uk/Wilkinson

In connection with this, if any kind person who is familiar with Bob Owen's papers would care to pass on similar references to be added to the gazetteer I would be very grateful.

Dave

Half a century ago my late wife translated in manuscript all the chapter on mining from Bob Owen's book. The book is difficult to get hold of and she worked from a copy borrowed from the National Library. I used a typed copy as an appendix to a postgrad thesis in the 1990s. I don't think I have it as a computer file but at worst I'll be able to provide a set of images. Give me a few days to find it........


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